On the other hand, sending up a trial balloon from time to time to see if it has gotten better is probably not an all bad idea. So perhaps Irene will be the trial balloon for the current check about which way the wind is blowing.

Maybe I will be the trial...you know I believe in second chances, why not make them proof themselves. I emailed them with my concerns, and think I will handle this in a professional way letting them know I'm concerned before starting...we'll see. Since my cousins grandaughter wants to go there, and they are visiting, I'll use this, hopefully in my favor. Worse case scenerio, I ate on my dime, but my cousin will chip in. This is a good way to find out if we should or should not continue bad-mouthing them...scoulding me Dee will get you nowhere.

I don't think anyone in their right mind should be the "trial balloon."

And, I wasn't scolding. I am telling you that you know better, as you have read it here and you said it yourself here. There is no post anywhere at any forum that shows this company is improving it's way out of contract pay schedule. This is the same company that wanted a woman in Indonesia to spend her whole months food budget on a shop. You can read here and at Violation how they lie in response to questions about how long their payment queue is, but they only do that BEFORE the shop. Afterward they ignore and lie some more.

That shop is going to have you fronting $125 for them for 6-9 months. You aren't going to earn interest. You are going to have to spend time and effort getting yourself into the pay queue. They will lie and say that you did not send paperwork, or you sent it and they lost it. The whole process will start again. Wait till 90 days have passed and you want to use that money for a different shop, but they haven't paid you. Then you will be complaining. Who wouldn't?

Except, you could avoid the two page report and the two page narrative, the headaches, the begging, the unanswered emails, the wondering if you will ever get paid or if they will be bankrupt before you do, and you could also avoid personally funding Freeman's jaunts to 5-star hotels in all corners of the world. You already said you know you should not do it. Go eat there on your own money if you really want to eat there. If need be, do a few extra shops for KNOWN TIMELY PAYERS to fund it. You will be happier and your wallet will be, too.

We are all grown ups. We can make our own decisions about what we choose to do. There was a discussion at our house about whether we wanted to eat at a fine dining that Freeman offered. It has been irregular in the past, sometimes excellent and sometimes almost mediocre. We decided it would be a nice evening out, but by then someone had taken the job. Certainly Freeman would have been dunned for the money after the stated turnaround was done, but the shop would have been undertaken with the knowledge that the money would be out of circulation for 6-9 months or perhaps forever.

I know you understand the risks, as you have shopped for them before and after their "fall from grace."

I still don't think anyone should be the trial balloon. Steve is right. Just say no.

And luckily, we all get to make our own choices and evaluate our own risks.

I understand where your coming from Dee, however, since I know what the aftermath can be and decide to do it, the problem is mine, I don't need to again be told in depth (after reading this thread). I also read where many have now been paid, so, maybe just maybe they are getting their act together. This is a lunch, so, reimbursement is $70.00, split in half (cousin) I'll wait for $35.00. My cousin brought up that restaurant before it came to me. I'm doing it Monday, and being one that always needed to learn from my own mistakes, believe me my fingers are crossed, but I will enjoy the day, and keep close tabs on them. You know the old saying, "Burned once, shame on them, burned twice, shame on me".

edited to say...I don't feel like a "trial balloon", wouldn't consider it if my family and I didn't want to do it, just want to do it. Looking at it as if I'd go there anyway, so, getting paid whenever is more than I'd make going on my own.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2010 03:35PM by Irene_L.A..

AFAIK Freeman has always paid everyone, just 6 or 7 months later. I have done the tourist restaurant to which Irene is referring. I was paid the usual Freeman fee as well as parking, full meal, bar and souvenir reimbursement for myself and a guest. I was paid 4 months later. The evaluation was straight-forward, as are most Freeman jobs, but the food was horrible. There is a branch of this restaurant in the foreign city that my wife and I spend our winters. An expat acquaintance performed the evaluation and claimed to have enjoyed the food and atmosphere, but I think it was merely an antidote for her feelings of homesickness.

This restaurnant is not know for it's food, I know that, it's a fun place and being in Hollywood, my cousin's grandaughter thinks she'll see some stars...and can go home and tell her friends she went there, that's it. They do pay for tip and parking and gift, which she will get to take home, it will be my treat!!

Anyone reading this forum for any length of time, or new and researching, has been forewarned that payment from Freeman will take a good long while. If the pocketbook can wait, it appears that payment will be made, albeit months after the due date. Some shoppers have history with Freeman, with ties they don't want to sever, and assume an acceptable-to-them risk when accepting a shop. New shoppers, should they choose, also assume an acceptable-to-them risk, and have an opportunity to get shops that otherwise would go to seasoned favorites.

I haven't shopped with Freeman, but it reminds me of AboutFace, who I do shop with. Types of shops differ between the MSPs. I continue to shop with AF, because I believe I will be paid. I don't want to see MSPs go down the tubes due to the sucky economy.

Have fun, Irene. I'll keep my fingers crossed that you'll get reimbursed, before the end of the year!

Is she old enough to drink? Take her to the bar at the Palm - Always some "stars" there. I don't think she will see any at the shop. There are always all the cool spots you shopped for RE, too, Irene, that get plenty of Hollywood types.

I thought there were slow payment issues with RE as well . . .

Different RE. Sorry for the confusion. Restaurant Evaluators is to be avoided. They do not pay without threats of Attorney general involvement. I meant Retail Eyes, whom Irene had done a lot of shops for before they lost the client. I have never shopped for them, as I have never seen a shop offered here, but they have a good reputation.

As to Mert's mention of AF and Freeman in the same post...To me, they are very different. AF was not as far behind, even when they were hiding their payment issues behind the veil of changing systems. And they are very close to being caught up even without shopper intervention. Plus, shopper intervention got you paid just a few days after the due date. With Freeman, it took me 9 months, many duplicate sendings of documents, many inquiry emails, and finally an email to Freeman himself telling him I thought he was running his business as a Ponzi scheme before I got paid. The same shop Irene will do next week.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2010 05:01AM by dee shops.

I am absolutely certain that Irene knows all of that from all of your previous posts, and cajoling her to do multiple shops with others rather than EVER working for Freeman is just nonsense. There is no reason for anyone to attempt to bully her into not making her own choices for her own shopping business. You have made your position very clear in numerous posts. We all are in control of our own businesses and over time we all find which companies we are willing to risk our money working with. I have just been offered several jobs with companies (not Freeman) that I would be delighted to do if the clients were with different companies, but I will NOT work for the companies involved. At the same time I am gritting my teeth and taking a shop with a company (again not Freeman) I do not trust because I do want to shop the client anyway and I fully realize that there is perhaps a 50% chance things will go without a hitch and a 75% chance I will eventually get paid and reimbursed. These are the risks that each of us must evaluate for ourselves.

Thanks Flash for helping me be a big girl and make my decisions. RetailEyes that I shopped for monthly never was late in payment. they were the first company along with JC&Assoc I worked for monthly. RE was my favorite, never a problem, I don't know why you said that dee, so untrue.

Dee, if you read my last post, all is explained, I'm not defending myself again, I will say, my guest is 20, and we don't drink for lunch. I have been going to the Palm while married, long before MSing, my ex's fav....that would not be a place to take a 20yr. old, just another great Italian restaurant, but more adult. The choice was hers, let's drop it,

Irene, READING ISSUE again. GEEZ. Use glasses much? Retail Eyes was the good one I referred to. Restaurant Evaluators was the one to avoid.

Flash, I am just done talking to you. Ever. I could care less what you think or say.

I am heartbroken and crestfallen about your response to my annoyance with your attempts to bully.

Not bullying. Just trying to help. Whatevs.

Woah - lets take a step back her folks. First - Flash - I love you, love your posts, and so appreciate your willingness to constantly answer anyone's questions in a very patient and complete manner. I think you are great. Dee - I also love you. For so many reasons. Yes, you are tenacious and sometimes your refusal to not back down is difficult to understand - but I admire anyone that is willing to stand up and fight for what they believe is right (even if I do not agree with them).

While I personally would not keep arguing this particular point (I am not tenacious) - I think we all should see clearly what Dee is trying to do here. Why would she bully? What gain is there in that?

For the record, I agree 100% with Dee that Irene should not take the shop. Not becaues I am worried that Irene might not get paid (I think Irene has already said many times she is aware of that possibility and is going in "eyes wide open"). As has been discussed, it is her perogative to run her business as she sees fit and she is an adult. That is NOT the point though. The point is that we keep discussing the sad state of this industry. The sad state of companies that don't pay, don't pay within their stated terms, try shady means of getting out of paying, etc. etc. For every company that does one of these things on a shop (and we can all agree that Freeman is in the category of a company that does not pay under their stated terms) that is a shop that is NOT being picked up by an ethical company that plays by the rules, pays when they are supposed to, etc. etc.

This is not a matter of doing a shop for an amount that is lower than what someone else thinks is fair (that is way too subjective), this is a matter of a shopper taking and doing a good job for an unethical company. This just keeps the cycle going... and prevents a GOOD company - that we can rely on to treat us as a shopper fairly - from picking up that client. You could be the person that allows Freeman to keep limping on... keep signing up shoppers to do their shops until ONE day - they file bankruptcy and BAM people are left out in the cold.

In the interest of FULL DISCLOSURE (and I thank those of you who are still reading). I was in the same boat as Irene about 2 years ago with OA. I took and completed a shop that I knew darn well I shouldn't take. I was actually performing the shop when OA filed bankruptcy (although we didn't find out about it many months later). I myself was saved from most all harm as I got OA to front me expense money for the (very high) remimbursement - I thought I was golden and safe. And I was. But then I saw and read the stories on Volition about the others that had really been hurt by OA. There was one story about a lady who was out thousands of dollars (including her rent money) because OA promised her she would get paid to get her to take a shop. To this day, I feel guilty about my role in keeping OA a float a "little bit longer" - possibly to rip off a few more people.

Irene - I totally understand where you are coming from, I honestly do. But think about this as well. Freeman has GOOD clients too. High end, really NICE hotel company clients. Of course none of us independant shoppers have much access to those clients - those are mostly shopped by internal staff themselves except in rare emergencies. But as long as we "help" Freeman stay afloat by doing their shops - the really great MSPs won't have much access to getting those clients and possibly allowing us small little shopping peons to do those shop

Thanks for reading - those that still are.

ETA: Irene - of course whatever you decide to do will not change my opinion one way about you - I appreciate very mcuh your posts, your humor, and your willingness to offer up help to everyone. And of course I hope you get paid quickly - and you enjoy the meal, and you have a fab time with your family!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2010 07:29PM by MickeyB.

And now I feel rather guilty about my role in helping make sure you got paid. :-( But the past is gone and can't be changed. The future can. :-)

Mickey pretty much summed up my feelings on this topic....

Mickey, eloquentley said...I am rethinking this after your post. I wrote to scheduler and told her of issues I found out with payment. I said if I do not hear from her in writing that I will get paid within 3 months, I am cancelling job. I'm 99% close to cancelling, (will go on our own), just don't want to stretch out what is a bad situtation for all of us, I don't want to be in poor favor with my fellow shoppers....I went through this with Goodwin, so, how do they get these excellent clients, and would anyone report them to the clients?

Dee, I've never worked for Restaurant Evaluator's (maybe once years ago), so RE means only RetailEyes.

Flash and Dee, I won't do it if you two kiss and make up...we all need each other, our different opinions count...I'm on Flash's side, and yes Dee, you act a little on the bully side, but, come on kids, play nice!!

Irene, no one will be "kissing and making up." This has been going on since the Sentry episode some months back. It is what it is.

I understand where you all are coming from and I am just very very tired of everyone trying to make decisions for everyone else. If shoppers want to shop for Freeman, or Restaurant Evaluators, or MFI or Cori or do 50 cent shops or 5,000 item audits for $10, that is completely and totally THEIR decision. Arguments against it should be make in terms of "I wouldn't do it because . . ." and then for Pete's sake, shut up. Your opinion is nothing more than your opinion, just as mine is mine. The horse is dead, so stop beating it! The knowledge that others think it is a bad deal is enough to make shoppers think before they make a commitment.

The notion of playing "I told you so" is noxious. Of course you did, but if I took every piece of 'advice' offered me I would be in a terrible pickle with no place to work whatsoever. And indeed I probably would have never worked a day in my life!

The notion of putting a company out of their misery because you don't like what they are doing I find noxious. If you don't want to work for/with them, fine. You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but it does not need to be stated and restated ad infinitum. We got the point already.

The notion that this business pays for squat because people are willing to work for squat may have some validity, but I have seen a whole lot of shops go overdue still lingering on job boards without pay increases and sometimes they even bother stretching out the dates with the same low fees. Too bad. Client and company will need to deal with that issue. The lack of a taker does not always raise prices to a reasonable fee. But frankly I don't bother with those companies. I work with ones who pay fairly in the first place and appreciate what I do for them.

Ultimately it is up to the client to decide who they want to work with, what they are willing to pay and what they want to find out. How many of the clients we have known and loved in the past have found that these days it is just too great and unnecessary an expense to bother with? If shoppers and companies don't bring real value to the table, there will be little incentive for clients to be shopped.

And while I'm on my high horse, I worry that all the video shopping is going to put us all out of business. It won't take long for clients to realize they can cut out the expense and middlemen by just doing a random inspection of the videos of their own locations and put microphones on the registers to hear what is actually said.

I don't expect that my value system is the same as anyone/everyone else's. My philosophy is that everyone who decides to try mystery shopping (or any other endeavor) is entitled to respect. I worry when my PM box fills with people asking shopping questions because they are afraid they are going to get smacked around if they post them in open forum. That is just plain WRONG. This forum was building a reputation for being newbie friendly and that seems to have gone by the wayside. For that I mourn.

Flash, excellent, let's all take her advice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2010 02:04PM by Irene_L.A..

As you have said Flash - most of this has been debated to the nth degree so I will leave responding to the majority of your post alone. Perhaps we shall agree to disagree on this issue and I hope we can still be friends.

I am interested in your comment about video shopping (although maybe way off topic - and deserving of its own thread). By video shopping do you mean actual shoppers with video - or do you mean clients just reviewing their own stationary video (plus perhaps audio) in lieu of employing/contracting with shoppers?

There is a thread on Video shopping as I said I am interested, and again got shot down by Dee....you'll find it, I think it will be the future of msing. Mickey, aren't you glad Im not doing shop for Freeman.....subject will be closed, but there will be more shops not paying, and someone else will take the shop I wanted, who wins, not us. Had I not been on this forum, I would have done it, not really as important as we think, and yes it should be our decision.

So you decided not to do the shop Irene? While it was my opinion that you not do the shop - Glad does not really describe how I feel. Rather I am sad that you were even in the position of having to make the decision. May the great shop fairy visit you very soon.

Mickey, your wods were powerful and well said, my intgrity said no after reading your post. My decision was based on this forum and you in paticular, but my head said do it, it was approprate for what is going on with my family visiting. Well, now that I'm not doing the shop...I'm sure Freeman will get their act together and start paying pronto....lol.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2010 03:14AM by Irene_L.A..

ggumbaroni@yahoo.com Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi everyone, I did motel shops for Freeman Group,
> Nov 1 AND Dec 1, 2009. They are supposed to
> reimburse for the room, plus pay $20.00. I have
> STILL not received ANY payment! There was a $10
> bonus on the Dec shop, so they actually owe me $86
> and $96 for the shops I performed what has become
> four and five months ago. They say they pay in 12
> weeks. I've written 4 times requesting payment.
> They keep responding that they are sending out a
> large number of payments within the next two
> weeks. Same answer the next time I wrote, and
> still no payment.
> I've asked for an address or phone number of
> someone else in their company that I can contact.
> No response. IS ANYONE ELSE HAVING THIS PROBLEM?
> HAS ANYONE ELSE BEEN PAID BY THE FREEMAN GROUP?
> Please reply, I am really wondering if I will ever
> be paid. Also, any suggestions as to what I should
> do? Thanks so much for any help you can give!
> -Rhonda