I got a summons for jury duty. They pay $10 a day and it's a 20 mile drive for me. As an Independent Contractor will that get me out of jury duty. I'm on Social Security and mystery shopping helps me to get by.

In my locale, you can get a one-time free pass out of jury duty.

It will vary by locale. Many if not most don't care if you don't show up. Some might. Personally I think serving on juries is important but I understand it might cause an undue hardship.

Have you been summoned to serve at least one week or only summoned to be questioned?
Some years ago I was summoned to be questioned in a federal courthouse an hour train ride from train station with out a free parking lot. Five day trial became 11. Those who were rejected were ummm interesting. The woman who went on and on about the country she emigrated from and the man who was very anti police department. At the end I was sitting next to two other women who matched my demographics--race, religion, & age. I was selected so they were not needed.
I suggest you whine on and on about undue hardship and loss of income.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2022 03:14AM by Rho*.

One of my daughters received a questionnaire Thursday. Yep, be forewarned. I told her they will summon you soon. I have served twice. In my jurisdiction, it used to be one excusal and then you must go unless it's for medical reasons, out of the country, you get the the gist. The first summons I got was for the federal grand jury which could have lasted months. Quarantine possibilities scared me so as I had babies who needed me. It was a long time ago. The other two times I had to go. The first one we sat around all day (bring a book, tablet) and I got sent home. The second time, I sat around, got interviewed briefly and wound up in the jury box. They settled while we waited. Went home. I was employed and my employer paid me. Out of pocket was the travel costs and food. Find out what will exempt you from serving and if it fits, send in documentation.

It says for the week of 3/21/2022

I get angry at this for how little they pay you, $10 a day. For all the money spent on the court system, you would think they would be able to pay minimum wage. At least with minimum wage, many people wouldn't mind serving.

You can google how to get out of jury duty. I got summoned twice in the last 20 years but the court got cancelled both times and I never even had to show up.

Fear not. There are ways to get out of this. Currently, I am on the active list for just one court until the middle of the year. There are few trials in that court here at any given time. I have been on the active list several times in the past. The only time I was summoned to appear, I was seated. That lasted one day. It was not so bad. I did not indicate any cause to excuse me, when I filled out the paperwork for this term. In the extremely unlikely event they call me to appear, they can decide to use me or not. *shrugs*

@johnb974 wrote:

I get angry at this for how little they pay you, $10 a day. For all the money spent on the court system, you would think they would be able to pay minimum wage. At least with minimum wage, many people wouldn't mind serving.

Jury service has long been considered a civic duty to be completed without pay. Small tokens of cash were provided to cover the costs of parking. Only more recently, has there been a move - in some jurisdictions - to over a stipend with the understanding that many employers do not provide jury-duty paid leave. A counter argument to such pay would be that it might serve as an incentive for the jury to take unnecessarily long in returning with a verdict.

$10 a day is ridiculous but pay depending on what state you live in this has not increased for many, many years. I recall being on "standby" and having to call in every night to see if I had to report the next day. Not fun by any means. Although stressful, those instances did not result in my having to appear. Civic duty? Makes one thinks twice about that when you are losing money.

I received a jury notice last Thursday. I had to go online and fill out the questionnaire. I can say that in Camden County, NJ, loss of income is not grounds for being excused.

My jury duty history:
1) Decades ago, I was called (for 2 weeks of service) four years in a row as an NJ resident while I was a graduate student in NC. I was excused all four times.
2) I was called once every 3 years while I lived in Delaware, for a total of about 8 times. I filled out the questionnaire each time). In the first 7 instances, I called the night before and was told that I did not have to report the next day. The 8th time, I was about to move to PA. I filled out the questionnaire as required. After I moved, I sent them a letter saying that I was no longer a Delaware resident. For fun, I called the "do I need to report tomorrow" number the night before. I would have had to go.
3) I was called for Federal jury service once. I filled out the questionnaire and was told that I had 28 days of eligibility. Since I was traveling a lot for work, I had to notify them in advance when I would be away. It took me 5 months to accumulate 28 days of eligibility. I never had to report.
4) In 15 years, PA never called me.
5) After 5 years in NJ, they called me. I did not even come close (except for being able to see age 75 or older as s future probability) to be able to qualify to be excused. Time will tell if I have to serve.

Yes, they do not care if you have income loss. :-(

I had bronchitis this year. My doctor has told me I have 75% lung capacity. I'm not completely over the bronchitis. I'm 69, so I may have a way out of this. They want me there on March 21st. This is the time of the month when shops offer bonuses. I would lose too much money.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2022 01:37AM by johnb974.

@Madetoshop wrote:

$10 a day is ridiculous but pay depending on what state you live in this has not increased for many, many years. I recall being on "standby" and having to call in every night to see if I had to report the next day. Not fun by any means. Although stressful, those instances did not result in my having to appear. Civic duty? Makes one thinks twice about that when you are losing money.

$10 a day, shows you how little they think of us doing our civic duty. They could cut the unemployment rate by offering minimum wage. $10 a day, also puts people in a bad mood for serving on a jury. If it's half a day or less, I could do a few mystery shops in the area to make up the pay.

Oh, my! That sounds serious. I realize that you do not need a doctor's approval for gig work, but I feel compelled to ask this. Has your doctor approved you, with your 75% lung capacity, for gig work? If you are not healthy enough for jury duty, it might be argued that you also are not healthy enough to attempt IC work.

@johnb974 wrote:

I had bronchitis this year. My doctor has told me I have 75% lung capacity. I'm not completely over the bronchitis. I'm 69, so I may have a way out of this. They want me there on March 21st. This is the time of the month when shops offer bonuses. I would lose too much money.

Doing mystery shopping I am able to keep a distance from people most of the time, I always wear a mask. I don't spend any time sitting around a bunch of people.

There are many people on this forum who collect government disability checks, yet somehow are able to shop routes. As a taxpayer, it angers me to see the scammers doing this. If you can walk around a gas station and photograph pumps, you can get a real job and quit mooching.

Edit to add: One of my most profitable and satisfying covert video gigs was working for a law firm that disputed claims for disability and worker’s compensation. I was paid very very well to video scammers riding ATVs, hauling lumber at Lowe’s, working out at the gym… all while claiming 100% disability benefits. If you are one of them, please be forewarned that there are people who are disgusted by your grift and eager to suss you out.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2022 05:06PM by ColoKate63.

Bench Warrants for failure to go to Jury Duty are very rare. Just have a good day. Don't give them the satisfaction of making you go and ask for permission to leave.

I'm 69, Social Security is my main source of income. I'm not on disability. Jury duty will cut deeply into my income. This is a hardship.

@johnb974: I wonder if it would strengthen your position if you could send to the clerk of the court some information that would justify your hardship claim. Can you show them redacted information that shows recent, previous March revenues-- especially for the time frame that you might be obliged to be in court instead of earning similar money by working? Do they permit this information instead of your appearing as directed? Should this now be a thing, if enough people protest the low pay and can demonstrate how much money they are losing by appearing as directed for jury duty?

@ColoKate63: That is a good point. I was on benefits for awhile. I could still use them. I dislike the system, so I quit that. However, here is a point that should be made. Seeing someone else or seeing something is not the same thing as feeling what that person is feeling or understanding what you are seeing. I usually hurt like hell during my gigs and at my wage job. I do them anyway and pay a price in several different ways. Pain is tiring, or exhausting. This requires a great deal of down time. It means there is not much time for pleasure or for more work. I am still disabled. If you submitted images of me at work you would not prove ability or disability. You may or may not see me walking well or unusually, slowly, gingerly, smiling, laughing, trying not to grimace, not smiling if I cannot quite smile that day, or otherwise experiencing my disabling condition for which I no longer collect benefits.

I hope that everyone is being careful with how they use collected images, which may or may not tell enough of each story. There is the potential for a "Gotcha!" as well as for a frame-up and cascade of problems.

@johnb974 wrote:

I'm 69, Social Security is my main source of income. I'm not on disability. Jury duty will cut deeply into my income. This is a hardship.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

@ColoKate63: That is a good point. I was on benefits for awhile. I could still use them. I dislike the system, so I quit that. However, here is a point that should be made. Seeing someone else or seeing something is not the same thing as feeling what that person is feeling or understanding what you are seeing. I usually hurt like hell during my gigs and at my wage job. I do them anyway and pay a price in several different ways. Pain is tiring, or exhausting. This requires a great deal of down time. It means there is not much time for pleasure or for more work. I am still disabled. If you submitted images of me at work you would not prove ability or disability. You may or may not see me walking well or unusually, slowly, gingerly, smiling, laughing, trying not to grimace, not smiling if I cannot quite smile that day, or otherwise experiencing my disabling condition for which I no longer collect benefits.

I hope that everyone is being careful with how they use collected images, which may or may not tell enough of each story. There is the potential for a "Gotcha!" as well as for a frame-up and cascade of problems.

Nah. After 40 or so, we’ve all been bumped around a bit by sports, ladder falls, blue-collar jobs - and pain is part of life. Take an OTC painkiller, walk it off, don’t expect a monthly taxpayer handout.

If you are so “disabled” that you legitimately cannot hold a job, then I better not see you crouching around bottom shelves on a Best Buy audit, doing a parking lot audit, or dashing around taking 80 pictures of a Shell station. You better be home, not clogging up the system, sucking taxpayers dry.

If you are going to claim 100% disability due to spinal injury, I’m happy to shoot my covert video of you loading Costco 24-packs of water into your SUV and turn you in for prosecution and fines. I’d do it every single day and twice on a Sunday (and be paid very very well for my work.)

Disability benefits are being abused in the USA. And the abuse causes legitimately disabled people - like my friend with stage 4 metastatic liver cancer or my neighbor with a TBI after a collision - to have to wait in an endless queue, behind the cheaters and the grifters. Some of whom I see here in this forum.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2022 07:51PM by ColoKate63.

@ColoKate63: I appreciate your concerns regarding fraud. Fraud is real and it is costly. It is also costly to make a false accusation which could deprive a disabled person of money, time, and life satisfaction. Thus, I also appreciate the difficulty of proving fraud and see a need to look out for overeager reporters. Before you turn anyone in, you had better be certain of exactly how they are disabled. What did they do before you saw them? How is what you see them doing now a violation of law-- versus how does what they do now compare to what they used to be able to do in the past? How does their current revenue compare to what they used to be able to earn? These are just a few factors in ability and disability, and the answers to these questions will not show up in your images, videos, or any other place that you can access. We have privacy rights and coverage regarding employment and medical records. To confound overeager reporters, the details for each person are unique. Without access to those private/off-limits facts, and with this lesson in how ability and disability might literally and figuratively look different for each person, how can you determine who is in violation or perpetrating a fraud? And, how can you be certain that your 'aha!' moments will not cause any difficulty or any hardship for persons who are not in violation or perpetrating fraud?

My state may be more lenient than others but we in California have a one day jury promise. This means that if you get called in at all during the week you are scheduled you can only be called once. If you do not get seated on a jury that day you are done. Our jury system is unique and depends on people from all backgrounds and walks of life to be in the jury pool.
But that said, I would think that if you have diminished lung capacity and you are also in a high risk age range for covid complications they would consider this a valid reason to excuse you from sitting indoors in a crowded room during a pandemic.
On the other hand if you happen to be an anti mask, anti vaccine person perhaps this reason does not fit for you.

@johnb974 wrote:

I had bronchitis this year. My doctor has told me I have 75% lung capacity. I'm not completely over the bronchitis. I'm 69, so I may have a way out of this. They want me there on March 21st. This is the time of the month when shops offer bonuses. I would lose too much money.

That is what I am thinking. I'm 69, get bronchitis easy. I'm at a higher risk for Covid. That should count me out.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

@ColoKate63: I appreciate your concerns regarding fraud.

Without access to those private/off-limits facts, and with this lesson in how ability and disability might literally and figuratively look different for each person, how can you determine who is in violation or perpetrating a fraud? And, how can you be certain that your 'aha!' moments will not cause any difficulty or any hardship for persons who are not in violation or perpetrating fraud?

I’m neither a judge nor a jury member. I merely work as a 1099 contractor for a law firm which is charged with collecting tips on disability fraud and gathering evidence for court proceedings to prosecute the fraudulent claims. I perform covert video surveillance on people who claim to be 100% disabled and unable to work at all. I get a detailed file on each person with their social media photos, their sports teams, gym memberships, vehicle ownership, et cetera. I work in conjunction with a P.I. firm to collect evidence on them for prosecution. It’s great, good work.

Disability fraud is estimated to cost each American taxpayer $1,000.00. I genuinely enjoy catching these grifters riding ATVs, doing deadlifts at Gold’s Gym, hanging Christmas lights from roofs. I get my video, I’m paid within five working days, and I walk away from the case and go to the next one. I have one scheduled for tomorrow where the claimant rides horses every Tuesday afternoon. Should be a good one.

I’d encourage you to search this forum for the words “disabled” and/or “disability,” There are multiple posters here who are on full disability, but posting about lifting heavy merchandising boxes, driving huge routes for gas station audits, doing parking lot audits. I hope each of them gets turned in and prosecuted.

I like mystery shopping because there is no heavy lifting. I have a large abdominal hernia and was told by a surgeon and doctor, not to lift more than 20 lbs. Mystery shopping gives me a lot of freedom to work, I don't know of any mystery shops that require you to lift.

@johnb974 wrote:

I like mystery shopping because there is no heavy lifting. I have a large abdominal hernia and was told by a surgeon and doctor, not to lift more than 20 lbs. Mystery shopping gives me a lot of freedom to work, I don't know of any mystery shops that require you to lift.

JohnB, this isn’t your post, but a frequent poster here wrote this three days ago.

@ wrote:

The work itself was easy; I'm 100% disabled, and was able to do them. Rarely took more than 20 minutes per store. The most difficult part for me was carrying the heavy box of cards into the store; I would normally go inside, get a cart, put them in the cart, and push them into the store, rather than carrying them

This person is committing disability fraud. There are people like me who have no problem at all filming them at their work and turning them in. I could easily go through this forum and pick out dozens of posts just like this. But I’m not getting paid $75/hour to perform surveillance on them, so they’re getting a break from me.

I did a mystery shopping project for Porsche in 2013-2014, and two of the drivers I worked with were 100% “disabled.” These guys bragged during cocktails at our Porsche training how they worked up to $599 for dozens of different companies (because a 1099 kicks in at $600) and never declared their income. They were proud of how clever they were. It made me angry and sick.

John B, your claiming bronchitis to get out of jury duty is likewise a form of fraud. You aren’t really afraid of catching an illness; you are just mildly inconvenienced by the timing of your jury duty.

And, I need to find my Levi’s and barn clothes and go
charge my PV-500. I have a disability cheat to catch tomorrow. Good night!

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2022 01:59AM by ColoKate63.

I was summoned for jury duty most recently maybe 3-4 years ago? That communication relayed valid reasons for excusal and the associated documentation you needed to submit by a certain date. Did your summons state that? What state are you in?.

@johnb974 wrote:

I like mystery shopping because there is no heavy lifting. I have a large abdominal hernia and was told by a surgeon and doctor, not to lift more than 20 lbs. Mystery shopping gives me a lot of freedom to work, I don't know of any mystery shops that require you to lift.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2022 04:51AM by Madetoshop.

How about nah to this: Simply taking an OTC pain killer is not advisable for me. Years and many doses later, I have an eye issue that is indirectly linked to long-term use of OTC pain killers. Are you certain that dispensing medical advice is appropriate? After all, you are not my personal health care provider and cannot be certain of what is appropriate/inappropriate for me. Are you so certain of what is appropriate medical advice for anyone else? Fortunately, I have been advised by a qualified medical provider not to take so much or so many of the OTC pain killers and have received clear explanation of why this is appropriate for me. Equally fortunately, I do not use the opioids and am free of issues in that way. I just live with a helluva lot of pain and discomfort.

In your second paragraph, you bullied if not threatened the general "you" of the population (unless you were threatening me directly). In your third paragraph-- it might be argued-- you provided the "or else" to the implied bullying or threat from the second paragraph.

Are you certain that threatening people, whether they are potentially or truly disabled, is appropriate? After all, many of them already labor without monetary pay under the constant burden of lives that have been defined by by the particulars of their disabilities. When did you start thinking that they needed to be threatened by you in addition to living as they can with-- or despite-- their conditions?

Another fortunate event in my life happened early in my working years. It provided me with an awareness of how to identify certain inappropriate situations and a way to address those for myself and others. Many years ago, I grossly misinterpreted the visual condition of someone's residence. I complained long and loudly about what should be. Oh, I just knew what the matter was and why was no one fixing it?

Fortunately, my extremely tough and wise supervisor proceeded to rip out my asshat attitude and replace it with some insight and humanity. That fixed me pretty well and taught me to stop thinking that what I thought I saw was what really was. Now that i am disabled, I am using this lesson on behalf of others who need not experience such an attitude or the fallout from such a vociferous antagonist. I am not thrilled that I used to be that way. I am only grateful that I might be able to help someone or prevent some harm because I used to be that way until someone wiser than myself changed me and inspired me to find my own pair.

As it turns out, I have helped myself by walking away from a system that has no provision to protect against a constant onslaught of legitimate and/or spurious reports of fraud. Unless and until the disability system improves itself and provides effective protection against any and all reports of fraud, any disabled person can be burdened and possibly harmed by a never-ending cycle of report/investigate/prove the allegation/demonstrate the ongoing disability. No one deserves to be treated in this shabby way. At the same time, no one should be well-paid or otherwise rewarded for their role in spurious or potentially false reports, including video or photograph submissions. It does not give people a sense of well-being or safety when they realize that absolutely anyone might be reporting information that could utterly ruin their life. Imagine how vulnerable and disabled persons must feel when they are constantly aware that suspicious minds have nothing better to do than gleefully collect money that might better be spent on increased benefit amounts for retired and disabled persons.

If I were an activist sort of soul, I would work in the realm of activism to change the world in favor of inherent protection for disabled persons. Talented activists might take up this good cause, though, and improve this aspect of life for disabled persons. My current activity is merely a mild suggestion. We could compile a list of potential factors in a solution to this glaring error in the distribution of funds. Along the way, we might consider several potential solutions.

One potential solution is to institute fines for constant or repeat reporting offenders. This might abate instances of disabled persons' lives becoming additionally defined by others in the nasty and negative way of being forced to live under constant surveillance instead of being free just to live-- whatever that may mean for each person's situation. The exact legal description will reference the fact that disability factors are private and will not show in much of the collected information. It will acknowledge that all collected information is subject to interpretation, which may or may not reflect the truth of any person's life. You mentioned being well paid for work that might be harming lives. What if the fines system could include restitution? Say, the same amount of money you received from your offensive and harmful work will be paid to the disabled person whose life has been harmed by the cascade of events from your well-paid work?

A longer term potential solution involves education and re-education for persons who have not been taught to consider the possible unwanted effects of their actions.

A third potential solution pertains to the original topic of this thread. Persons who are disabled or on low retirement income should be provided with a more user friendly method of demonstrating how performing the expected civic duty might be possible but inadvisable. Inadvisability might include unnecessarily incurring pain or discomfort that is not to be treated with prescription or OTC medications, loss of income from whatever work the person may perform, unnecessary burden that is associated with transportation, etc.

@ColoKate63 wrote:

Nah. After 40 or so, we’ve all been bumped around a bit by sports, ladder falls, blue-collar jobs - and pain is part of life. Take an OTC painkiller, walk it off, don’t expect a monthly taxpayer handout.

If you are so “disabled” that you legitimately cannot hold a job, then I better not see you crouching around bottom shelves on a Best Buy audit, doing a parking lot audit, or dashing around taking 80 pictures of a Shell station. You better be home, not clogging up the system, sucking taxpayers dry.

If you are going to claim 100% disability due to spinal injury, I’m happy to shoot my covert video of you loading Costco 24-packs of water into your SUV and turn you in for prosecution and fines. I’d do it every single day and twice on a Sunday (and be paid very very well for my work.)

Disability benefits are being abused in the USA. And the abuse causes legitimately disabled people - like my friend with stage 4 metastatic liver cancer or my neighbor with a TBI after a collision - to have to wait in an endless queue, behind the cheaters and the grifters. Some of whom I see here in this forum.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2022 03:47AM by Shop-et-al.