I was reading along another thread today and saw a few comments about how hard it is to guess descriptions details like age and height. I have a horrible time with it! I have not idea how tall people really are. I sometimes am able to compare them with my own height, but if they are standing and I am sitting, I have no idea. I have no idea how old people are, either. They either look 20 or 40 or 60. And hair color? Where do you draw the line between blonde and brown? Blonde and gray? Sometimes they are bald with a dark shadow, what then? And, if the man has stubble all along the bottom half of his face, is that a beard and mustache? I even had an instance where I really did not know if the employee was a male or female. The name tag indicated maybe female, but something told me it very well could be a male. I had not idea what to do because I knew this person could see my description and if they did, I didn't want to hurt them. The employee descriptions are, for me, the worst part of the whole survey because I don't want to hurt someone.

The employee description is used to verify that you actually shopped the correct person and to give the client a way to identify the employee when a name cannot be obtained. In my experience, the description does not have to be good enough for a sketch artist. "Approximately five feet, six inches tall" is close enough for someone who might be between 5'4" to 5'8. I usually give wide ranges for weight, such as, "150 to 180 pounds." The most important part of the description is including any distinguishing features, like glasses, bald, visible tattoos...

When in doubt about gender, contact your scheduler for guidance. Give them the information you have and explain why you coundn't tell. Let them either find out, or tell you which gender to use in your report.

Just do your best. It can be very difficult. I had to judge the height of employees in a food truck, for which I could only see their face, and they are standing an unknown height above the ground to begin with. I just made up something and explained the harsh conditions.

I also find it odd how some MSC specifically ask you for race/ethnicity while others scold you sharply for including race when it was not asked for. Female, 30, 5'0" and long black hair can describe about every employee in some of the shops I do. I don't get what the big deal is to help narrow it down by race, but I guess people get offended by anything these days.

Wow! It never occured to me that I could be reprimanded for saying the race. So far, I've never said race, but I've never been asked, either. Now I know not to offer that information unless asked for. It's not fun to be reprimanded for something you didn't know not to do. Thanks!

About descriptors for race, ethnicity, body type, etc..... As someone who does 20-40 cash integrity shops a month I have come to appreciate that when those types of data are required it is helping to assure that if there is pilfering, for instance, any further investigation actually targets the correct employee. In many, many places an employee who "forgot" their name tag will "borrow" one. Where cash "diversion" is rampant, this is intentional, to attempt to divert attention from the actual culprit. So, to protect innocent employees I am happy to provide detail, right down to a mole on the chin, body size/type, and not just race/ethnicity but whether their English was foreign accented or "local" (by which we mean that they sound like US English was their first language.)

In other circumstances, where cash is not the issue, it may well be that the client is concerned about compliance with laws and regulation where a non-complying employee could cost tons in fines or even get the business closed down (Liquor licence revocation come to mind) There are even union contracts that require such details in case an employee is accused in an MS report (among other things) of wrongdoing.

If you are uncertain of ethnicity you might say, "Ethnicity uncertain, may be Middle Eastern or South Asian, medium tan complexion..." etc. Age by decade is a good compromise descriptor, as is a range of heights. For a cashier in a booth "seated" takes the place of height; a similar comment for someone standing several feet above or below you works fine. When uncertain, "dark hair" or light hair" of "shaved or bald" seems to do the trick unless you have only check-off options.

If you are not comfortable with detailed descriptions such shops may just not be for you. The employee deserves a good description when it is needed to protect the innocent.

I've done shops where the MSC will slap your hand for mentioning ethnicity and others where they absolutely want it. Sometimes the request is vague enough that I'm not sure. I did a shop yesterday where they asked for a description of the employee, which the client doesn't see, as well as the name. They mentioned a number of parameters to use, including "color." I thought that was very odd wording. I was helped by two employees, one clearly Caucasian, which I stated, but I was unsure of the other and gave my best guess, saying "possibly(ethnicity)." Hopefully that's what they meant by "color." They didn't ask for "complexion," which would have been clear.

@walesmaven I fully agree. But I've had MSCs send back comments to me to "NEVER refer to anyone as African-American," and only ONLY describe their gender, height, hair color, and age. Strangely, the same company said nothing when I described other employees as white or Asian. Some MSCs (or maybe it's just the clients) do not want a race description at all. I also got reprimanded because for the box on hair color, I said "could not determine, as it was under a turban". The response from the editor was "guess from their eyebrow color" haha They could have been bald or dyed it purple for all I know...I was just trying to be helpful.

It is almost certainly the client's request when items like race or ethnicity are requested. If the guidelines are silent on such subjects, you are free to ask. I have had editors who did not know the client-specific guidelines reprimand me for descriptors that were required; when that happens, just stand up for yourself. Take good notes so that if, later, you get a question about a characteristic that you did not include in your report you can answer, "According to my shop notes...." Any survey that asked for "color" without any other identifying characteristics that would lead to accurate race or ethnicity is just plain poorly designed. My "summer color" (I am Caucasian) is an almost exact match for my African-American godson's winter color. Nuff said. Most sensible editors would accept "covered" as an explanation for hair color not observed! Don't get all uptight about it.

After being reprimanded years ago for mentioning race/ethnicity, I never use that to describe an employee unless the guidelines/survey specifically says to. When in doubt, I don't. In the above case, it definitely appeared they wanted some reference to skin color/race/ethnicity, but it wasn't clear exactly what.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2018 09:50AM by BirdyC.

I had the "not sure if it is a male or femaile" issue before. The name was gender neutral and I had no idea. Finally, in a discussion off topic completely, the person said they were a lesbian and I thought, "Oh, thank heavens!"

It was a Goodwill donation shop and somehow we got in a discussion about dress codes at middle schools. I have a tendency to make comments not related to the information I'm looking for which causes my shops to go longer than they need to. Something I am slowly getting better at.

TIP: Sometimes, in a retail location, I'll walk around the store with my phone in my hand at my side with the video running. I casually turn and make sure I get each staff member in the frame. Then I have something to look at when it comes time to write a description. It takes a little practice to make sure I can get the angles right without looking and to make sure no one sees what I'm doing. Also good for when you have to describe the location and displays.

Troy Hawkins, I love that idea! And all of you had such great insights. I have learned so much from each of you and will be more confident in the future. Thank you!

On shops where I have a lot to remember, if I have the opportunity while standing in a line or hiding behind a rack of clothes, I'll pretend to be texting and snap a quick photo of the employee to help with my description later. As far as race or body type, I answer what is asked of me. If the report asks I give the information. If not I usually don't. You start to remember which shops want what.

@TroyHawkins wrote:

TIP: Sometimes, in a retail location, I'll walk around the store with my phone in my hand at my side with the video running. I casually turn and make sure I get each staff member in the frame. Then I have something to look at when it comes time to write a description. It takes a little practice to make sure I can get the angles right without looking and to make sure no one sees what I'm doing. Also good for when you have to describe the location and displays.

Only in certain jurisdictions.

@Rousseau wrote:

Only in certain jurisdictions.

That's the whole "secret" part, not getting caught

But seriously, yes, it could cause issues/be illegal depending on where you are. And never in a bank or medical facility.

This is one question I most often find easy to answer. I am a decent judge of height and age - hair style and hair color is easy to remember as is gender. I never mention ethnicity or race. It's basically impossible to be certain by skin color alone, so why take a chance at being wrong? So far, I have not had employees whose gender was uncertain.

When I started shopping I had trouble remembering what employees looked like. Now it's second nature to take a good look at their hair, body type, and any other identifying details I can add to the description.

Have you ever been asked to estimate an employee's build? There is just one shop I do that requests that information. Of course, you need to be tactful, but it's still not an easy descriptor.

Sometimes I have a hard time remembering if someone wore glasses. It would seem an obvious thing to notice, but since I wear them, I kind of take it for granted. Hair color, length, what notable pieces of jewelry they were wearing are easy. I've had to home in on eyeglasses and make a voice note as soon as I get in my car!

I shopped a place twice. Once, the employee wore glasses. The other time, they did not wear glasses. I did not remember the eye color or determine whether the employee wore contact lenses. I never found out if the editors or AI could determine that one employee had two distinct descriptions for two shops which were mere days apart from each other. Of course, I did not compare the person with themselves in the second report. So far, no one has questioned me about the second description of the same person.

Sometimes the person I have to describe is so "normal" looking, i.e., average height, age, long brown hair, etc, that I forget to notice all the "normal" traits. But I did a shop this week where the person who assisted me had light blue/aqua hair piled on top of her head, with a small light blue/aqua nasal piercing through her nasal septum. That one I EASILY remembered!!

I have exactly the same problem! I can remember the details of tattoos and the exact shade of brown hair, but surreptitious photos have shown me again and again that I blank out glasses. Now I look at the employee and say silently to myself the color and shape of the glasses - it helps.

I wish I knew what training police have on retaining descriptions. I know it's something that can be learned and taught.

Wearing them myself and growing up in a household where both parents wore them must have made me spectacles-blind!

@mskimmysue wrote:

I even had an instance where I really did not know if the employee was a male or female. The name tag indicated maybe female, but something told me it very well could be a male.

Read a post awhile back (by a man) that said to indicate "male" if you were unsure. His reasoning was that if it was a woman trying to look like a man, she wouldn't be offended.

re: build. Fat = "full figured" (woman) or "large-framed" (man). Skinny = trim, slender. Bulky = muscular. Morbidly obese = portly. Sort of sad that we're at the point where we can't just use actual descriptions without immediately ascribing negative intentions to someone who does. Fat people know they're fat; skinny people know they're skinny.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2018 01:22AM by iShop123.

For the shop I do where they want build, they suggest "slim, slender, average," but I can't remember if they actually use an example of what to say when someone is heavy. "Full figured" would work for a woman, but "large-framed" isn't quite the same as heavy. Maybe "heavy-set" or "large build"? I get stuck on some of these. You can't use "skinny" or "fat," but there are many other terms one can use, but how to know which are acceptable in a report and which are not? Sigh....

@Shoshi99 wrote:

I wish I knew what training police have on retaining descriptions. I know it's something that can be learned and taught.

How to Describe a Suspect: [home.chicagopolice.org]

I was just thinking about this the other day. Does anyone know of an app that can "test" your description memory? Something like... I look at a face or full person for 10 seconds, then have to describe them in detail. I would love feedback of my accuracy and a chance for easy practice.

Luminosity.com has a memory game that's similar to what you're describing. You have to sign up for a free account first.

"@mskimmysue wrote:

I even had an instance where I really did not know if the employee was a male or female."

You were on my mind today when I noticed a gender neutral salesperson. Yup--that's the one who asked to assist me. Up close the man bun, five O'Clock shadow, and masculine shoes assured me this was a male.
I was blown away when the business card handed me was for 'Debbie Smith'.

I had an uncertain gender assistant at a grocery shop. I got so flustered, all I could say was "You don't look like a Gwendowlyn!" (Football player shoulders; no waist; no, um, curves; but long hair and HEAVY makeup!)

I have never put in weight on any of my reports, which is 1000's. I put in average. I guess height by my height, which is 5' and my husbands which is 6'. I don't think you have to be exact, it is just to clarify with the name tag.
I do put in beard, mustache, goatee nothing else. Hair color blonde, brown, black, bald, gray, purple, etc. I have never had a report turned back to me for these reasons.

The clerk would be slender if there were two of them.