I really like doing business with MarketForce. I have been doing business with them ever since I started in May of last year. However, I have had two assignments for XYZ company. This is a fast food shop. Unfortunately the guidelines are very rigid. As rigid as they are, there is no reason beneficial to MarketForce to begin a systematic process alienating the shopper.

According to the guidelines, I am required to do a drive-through and a walk-in. Multiple timings are required. Specific mealtimes are published. Cash is always required for payment.

Now here is what happened to me: a while back I performed the shop and to expedite I decided to do the walk-in first and then the drive-through. I did the walk-in and forgot to use cash. I immediately left to begin the drive-through. After completing the drive-through I waited the appropriate time and did the walk-through again. This time I did use cash. This was a very long distance shop. I spent $50 on gasoline. The price was negotiated and I was expecting to earn $30 (I think).

I submitted the shop and all the timings were proper. I happen to mention what had happened and that I had gone through the walk-in twice. Quality control refused my shop for that reason. I asked why? The response given to me by a quality control representative who was a male and his name started with a J was I could have been identified as a shopper.

"I could have been identified as a shopper." Duh! This job we always run the risk of being identified as a shopper. If we are identified as a shopper we will not be paid. That is the nature of the beast. We all know it and accept it. The fact is, I was not identified as a shopper; however, this person decided to penalize me for making a mistake. This shop was a negotiating tool to negotiate lower prices on four other shops at the same time. In effect he used this as an excuse to lower total payment on all of the shops. I.e. (for example )my price for each shop before adding this shop at their request was $90 each. By adding one more shop this one, I agreed to $80 each.

I should have been paid for this shop. I don't think anyone will disagree with that except "J". However, I feel I was used because of what happened the other day.

I received an emergency call: please please please help me with this shop. Name your own price and I will submit it for payment. It can be done anytime, as long as it's done today. The shop is over 200 miles round-trip. I requested $90. They came back and offered me $75 and promised to make it up somewhere down the line with another shop.

It just so happened that I was free and I could do the shop. I got in my car and I drove to perform the shop immediately. I.e. I printed out the assignment, put in my briefcase and left. I arrived to begin my shop at 1:30 PM. Normal scheduling for shops during the lunch ends at 1:15 PM. However, I remember being told I could shop it any time. So I perform the shop and it took me more than one hour before I was ready to leave for home. I made the trip home and uploaded my shop.

As a matter of practice, I refueled my car and the shop cost me $50. Therefore, I was looking at a $25 profit for four hours driving time one hour on location and a half hour online report. I was doing them a favor. This was not a surprise to me. I knew what I was doing when I started.

The next day, you all know what happened! "J" rejected my shop because it was not during the normal lunch. Nor was it during any other mealtime. When I received the email I immediately responded by calling MarketForce to try and work this out. I was put in touch with "J". I explained to him that I was told this shop could be performed at any time. I told him this is exactly what I was told. His response to me was this: it's your own fault! You should've read the instructions. It's part of your contract.

It was irrelevant what I had been told. He did not care and he didn't try to smooth things. He simply "cut me off while I was speaking" and told me I was not going to get a dime. That was rude. I retaliated and raised my voice and said I said, under the circumstances you should at least reimburse me for my gasoline. He said absolutely not. I asked to speak to his manager and he said he would leave a message with his manager to call me.

The idea of arguing this any further is a bad idea. Therefore, I'm going to let it go. However, the schedulers know what happened and they are the ones we have to deal with. They know "J" just made their job more difficult. As a shopper, I guess I am most upset by his attitude. Any gesture of goodwill would have gone a long way. However, this is the second shop for this particular assignment company that I have lost money on. That I have to live with. However, as a businessman I must calculate these possible losses into future scheduled assignments. Regardless of the intentions of the scheduler, there are people in quality control that are overzealous.

From this point forward I will not lower my fee to do MarketForce a favor. In addition, I owe it to myself to try to recuperate $100 in lost fuel expense, not to mention my lost time. I will calculate these expenses into the future.

I wonder how many others have had this type of problem? Tell me about your stories. This fast food shop is the only shop with MarketForce that I have ever had a problem dealing with the schedulers or quality control. I have always found the others to be open to negotiation and fostering goodwill.

I believe all professional shopper's appreciate understanding what has happened in our business. For that reason, I have shared this story with you today.

Oohh that's a tricky one - usually when they say it can be done anytime they mean during any meal time not during any time of the day. Unless your CPI states literally anytime I don't think you are in luck. I have shopped for them a long time and I have never heard of being able to shop the FF as a blanket anytime... only sometimes having the option to choose any of the meal time periods.

Liz

complain to them on twitter and they will pay you

First, regardless of your relationship with the scheduler, get everything in writing.

Second, do not provide any information they do not ask for regarding the shop. If you make a mistake correct it and all they need to know is the shop was completed.

Third, never negotiate down from a bonus. It doesn't matter you were adding a shop for them, the others were already worth $90. The value of the additional shop actually went up if you were taking the others in the area because your refusal would have created an orphan shop.

I am techman01, and I approve of LisaSTL's message.

I agree, when they say "anytime", they mean any meal period, breakfast, lunch or dinner. They should still have the time frames listed on the CPI.

Traveliz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oohh that's a tricky one - usually when they say
> it can be done anytime they mean during any meal
> time not during any time of the day. Unless your
> CPI states literally anytime I don't think you are
> in luck. I have shopped for them a long time and
> I have never heard of being able to shop the FF as
> a blanket anytime... only sometimes having the
> option to choose any of the meal time periods.
>
> Liz

Not paying with cash definitely will get your shop rejected. I would have quickly redone that part of the shop and paid cash. Doing a shop outside the normal meal periods also gets your shop rejected. When the schedulers get desperate, they open the shops to anytime, meaning they can be done within the scheduled breakfast, lunch or dinner periods, but not outside those scheduled times.

I agree never negotiate down from a bonus, and, especially, always get any agreement in writing.

David, you've had two zero outcomes here plus a disagreeable interaction with someone at the company. Nevertheless, breaking off from the company may not be the best plan going forward.

It's unfortunate that the verbal information you got was unclear to you. Sorry, but I believe there was a misunderstanding about "any time". Because this shop always specifies meal times for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, I would interpret "any time" to mean "any meal". Some of these shops offer a choice of three specified meal times for shopping, and some offer only one specified meal time. I have never seen one posted without times.

I understand from your comments that you have been taking some bonused jobs at prices below what you consider fair in an effort to build stronger relationships with MSPs. That sounds logical on the surface, but I don't think it makes sense in The Misery Shopping World.

My reasoning is the MSCs look at each job as an individual job. If they didn't, we would all be set up with routes that we do on a rotational basis. They would not be letting these jobs one by one if they did not absolutely believe this is the most effective way for them to get the work done. Since they are letting the jobs one by one, that means the fee for one job does not affect the fee for another job. Each job is an individual contract for which we must be the first to accept a posted fee unless the job goes to bonused status. If it goes to bonused status, we must be the first to agree to do the job on time for the least amount of money. How many times have I heard this: "I'll check and get back to you"? They already know their top number, and that statement means my offer is being compared with everyone else's.

Consider taking the same attitude the MSCs take. Each individual job stands on its own. In the case of taking a job as an isolated shop, I consider that the job will usually take me away from the direction of any other possible work. That's an opportunity I'm giving up. This is what I factor into the decision to take an isolated bonused job:

1. The driving distance, related to car expenses.
2. The driving time, related to the dollar value to me of my personal time involved.
3. The opportunity cost, related to giving up potential work in another direction.
4. The aggravation factor, related to upsetting my schedule, as in "Do I feel enthusiasm or annoyance"?
5. The potential financial and time loss, as related to zero pay if I make a mistake.

I don't factor in how I feel about the MSP, or how I want them to feel about me, or whether I think this or that in the future might hinge on what I decide today. They're working a job at a time. I'm working a job at a time. They chose to set up the system this way, and I'm going to work within the system they set up.

In regard to the experience on the first shop, a good policy is to provide requested information and to refrain from providing what is not asked. I learned this the hard way. In regard to the second experience, the disagreeable interaction was with only one person. It is true this person represented the company at that particular time, but this person is not the company and if we have any luck at all this person will move on soon and be disagreeable somewhere else.

David, based on your understanding of these jobs, I don't think you did anything wrong. From the viewpoint of the MSP, they didn't get what they needed to use as an accepted report. Sometimes that happens to us and we have to consider it the cost of education.

I'll also bet you three cents that they used the report anyway. This behavior of theirs is the very reason I no longer shop for them. They've connived and flamdoodled me out of fees more than once.

The last time they stiffed me out of a highly bonused banking shop, claiming I was a long lost cousin of the branch manager, I wrote them a letter stating the case in writing. They saw the light and sent me my money, but maybe it had something to do with my CC notation at the bottom of the letter to the state attorney general's office and also to a lawyer's name.

I think Mary's views of building a relationship with a MSC are right in the vast majority of cases, just not all the time. The MSCs I will go out of my way to help are the same ones that keep me on speed dial for high paying local shops. For them there is also very little negotiating involved because their first offer is often what I would have asked for or even better.

It has been proven over and over that Market Force treats their shoppers like numbers and believes for every one they dump (or that dumps them), 20 more will come along. They are probably right since they are the first MSC most shoppers find and because of their ridiculously easy jobs and reports, they are still the one that gets recommended as a "starter" company.

WOW....and the most I got from those FF is $10....that's why I no longer do them. Not worth time/fee.

David,

They require "cash" because any other method throws off the time. Credit Cards, Debit Cards, will slow the time.

To be honest, when you first said, "I paid cash" I saw the *doom* signs...

Actually it "is" relevant that you shopped at 1:30 p.m. when the cut off to BEGIN/END the shop is 11:45 to 1:15.

I would take a nice cup of coffee, go sit in a quiet place and study your instructions. (not being sarcastic, I do this every night before I go to bed).

Actually studying your instructions is PART of the assignment, it just as important as when you gas your car up, make sure you have cash, get your GPS on, and make sure you understand before you walk out the door....

All is for nothing... if you don't perform the shop correctly.

You drove 50 miles you say. That is "irrelevant" to the client, who can't accept your shop because it falls out of the time range required.

Tough Love?...Yeah....but you will learn from these.....

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2013 02:17AM by SunnyDays2.

My best from them is $42.57. A nice round number, no?

It was for a fast food shop an hour and 15 minutes from me and I was going there anyway on another job. They still email me every so often to take it again. For $7.50. LOL.

Never ever volunteer extraneous information on a report for Market Force. Stick to their checkbox format and submit it. Trust me, facts just create chaos.

Cettie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll also bet you three cents that they used the
> report anyway. This behavior of theirs is the
> very reason I no longer shop for them. They've
> connived and flamdoodled me out of fees more than
> once.
>
> The last time they stiffed me out of a highly
> bonused banking shop, claiming I was a long lost
> cousin of the branch manager, I wrote them a
> letter stating the case in writing. They saw the
> light and sent me my money, but maybe it had
> something to do with my CC notation at the bottom
> of the letter to the state attorney general's
> office and also to a lawyer's name.


As many of you on here know that in the past I have been a big fan of Marketforce. However, in the past several months they have done the same thing to me, so I all but stopped doing shops for them. If they call me they have to make the job worth my while to do it. If not, I don't do it.

I agree with everyone about the "any time" meaning "any of the established meal periods".

However, whoever spoke to David could have said, "any of the meal periods", not "any time".

Because usually, and to most people, "any time" actually does mean, "any time". Like for other restaurant shops, and other shops that typically have specified time periods for completing the shop... when the MSC get desperate, they change it to "any time". And they really *do* mean "any time".

As for not paying cash & re-doing that part of the shop ~ I agree... don't even mention such things. I had to do a drive-thru twice once, because I was dumb enough to not make sure I had the receipt. 99% of the time, they hand it to me with my change. This time, they didn't, and I didn't look under the bills to make sure before moving on. Did I mention this, since the 2nd drive-thru had been completed in the required time frame? Not on your life.

Thanks everyone for all the great comments. Of course, I agree with everything said. I was just venting. The fact is, I did not know the meaning of any time. I do now!

I have had time to cool, now, and just want to move on. It would have been preferable to me, if they would at least give me the opportunity to re-shop the assignment. That implies goodwill.

See what I mean? I have always done business with the intent to establish good working relationships and reliable business history. I guess that is the "OCD" in me. :-)

I have a lot of fun doing these shops. I appreciate remarks made by all the shoppers in this forum. It's my pleasure to be involved with all of you in this industry and I look forward to getting to know you all more in time.

For now, I am moving onto get another shop and tho I had a little frustration, look at all the great comments.

Thanks everyone.

Dave,

I've 3 suggestions and a comment:

1-Read Lisa's post #8636.
2-Re-read Lisa's post #8636.
3-Finally read Lisa's post #8636 again.

Now for the comment:

Dave stated in two separate paragraphs:


They came back and offered me $75......I refueled my car and the shop cost me $50. Therefore, I was looking at a $25 profit for four hours driving time one hour on location and a half hour online report.

BOB'S comment:

David, as a ChFC you must know that isn't correct; if it were, the IRS would only reimburse for gas. There was never going to be any cash profit, especially when you factor almost 1/4 of a day's time. Unfortunately, there's now a far greater lose.

Now, for the good. Your final post clearly indicates you've profited by this experience and won't again err in this area. As for me, I've never learned an easy lesson; the more it cost, the better I learn.

Assuredd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a lot of fun doing these shops. I
> appreciate remarks made by all the shoppers in
> this forum. It's my pleasure to be involved with
> all of you in this industry and I look forward to
> getting to know you all more in time.
>
> For now, I am moving onto get another shop and tho
> I had a little frustration, look at all the great
> comments.

I sincerely admire your positive attitude and your willingness to turn this into a learning experience.

For a shop that was 95 miles one way, I charged $110 and they paid. If they want it done, they will pay! It is your time, not theirs!

I had a wonderful time talking with my husband and enjoying the ride we had not taken in a long time!

maboug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For a shop that was 95 miles one way, I charged
> $110 and they paid. If they want it done, they
> will pay! It is your time, not theirs!
>
> I had a wonderful time talking with my husband and
> enjoying the ride we had not taken in a long time!


Hmmm, business mode is kicking in and concludes that $110.00 is not enough.

Why?

-- 190 miles at 56.5 cents/mile (the 2013 IRS rate) = $107.35
-- 3 hours travel time at $10/hr = $30.00
-- Time to perform the complete shop - 1 hour ?? = $10.00


Total cost for my time: $147.35.


Just something to think about.

Exactly. There is no point to building a relationship with "factory" MSCs. Save that for the MSCs that have the highest paying and best shops in your area.



LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Mary's views of building a relationship
> with a MSC are right in the vast majority of
> cases, just not all the time. The MSCs I will go
> out of my way to help are the same ones that keep
> me on speed dial for high paying local shops. For
> them there is also very little negotiating
> involved because their first offer is often what I
> would have asked for or even better.
>
> It has been proven over and over that Market Force
> treats their shoppers like numbers and believes
> for every one they dump (or that dumps them), 20
> more will come along. They are probably right
> since they are the first MSC most shoppers find
> and because of their ridiculously easy jobs and
> reports, they are still the one that gets
> recommended as a "starter" company.

Rather than calling them and getting into an argument just send them a bill for services rendered. You might never hear from them, but then again, they might surprise you.

Well... There are shops I sometimes do for a hundred bucks that are 90 miles away. One's a drive in and one's the big M on a Stick. While it does not seem like enough to some, I can usually add another fifty bucks' worth (or more) along the way, and it gets me away from the kids for a while. I like to listen to NPR on the radio, or nothing at all, two luxuries that don't happen at home.


vlade5394 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> maboug Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > For a shop that was 95 miles one way, I charged
> > $110 and they paid. If they want it done, they
> > will pay! It is your time, not theirs!
> >
> > I had a wonderful time talking with my husband
> and
> > enjoying the ride we had not taken in a long
> time!
>
>
> Hmmm, business mode is kicking in and concludes
> that $110.00 is not enough.
>
> Why?
>
> -- 190 miles at 56.5 cents/mile (the 2013 IRS
> rate) = $107.35
> -- 3 hours travel time at $10/hr
> = $30.00
> -- Time to perform the complete shop - 1 hour ??
> = $10.00
>
>
> Total cost for my time: $147.35.
>
>
> Just something to think about.

Y 'all must live in the boondocks. I'm lucky if I get $20 fee for the FF. Most days I get the "premium" fee of $3.00 added to them.

I "love" (sarcasm) it when they want me to do a merchandizing/auditing shop that they claim will take no longer that 90 minutes. The ones I have done have never taken less than 3 hours and usually closer to 4. Last time they called on it, I told then once again how long the shop took. I then told them that I would not take under $50 for the shop. they stated it was at the beginning of the period and they could not give it to me for that. I told them, "Fine. Then don't call me again until you can give it to me for that." I was told that they would note this. I have not received another phone call to do these types of shops again. Mark my words, because I have now stated this, they will call me tomorrow to do one (oops! I forgot, tomorrow is Sat. - so they won't call me unless they are really desperate. So, let's give it until Tuesday before I receive a call.)

I have done numerous shops for MarketForce and have always found them to be easy to work with. They were always fair until recently. Twice I was called and asked to do shops, we negotiated a rate and I printed the CPI. The amounts did not match the negotiated rate. I emailed them and was told not to worry, the negotiated rate was listed in the computer and that is what I would be paid. I took them at their word. Bad idea....I was paid the rate listed on the CPI. When I emailed them regarding this, I did not even get a response. Oh well, it wasn't much money and I have learned a valuable lesson.

shopgal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Never ever volunteer extraneous information on a
> report for Market Force. Stick to their checkbox
> format and submit it. Trust me, facts just create
> chaos.

I always stick to this for all MSCs reports. Learned my lesson
the hard way. Extra info gives them more excuse to complicate
matters. Think of it as being in court---"Never volunteer
information." Not unless they asked you if you redid it. There
was no need to report on it unless you were actually spotted.

Market Force has been one of my best MSC since I started shopping in 2007. When I first started, I had a few issues with timing. Once I mastered timing for them, they have had me do numerous shops, mostly gas stations and fast foods. I did some traveling getting $500 in a day (before my expenses) several times. They call me and offer $100 for an hour travel for our favorite ff company. I am very satisfied with my work with them. Periodically I have been asked to clarify something or receipt wasn't clear. I responded timely, and no problems. If one doesn't follow the directions in the CPI, I would expect that shop to be rejected.

Update!

Well what do you know. I finally got a call from a supervisor. We discussed both of my complaints? Yes. A couple things happend. First, she uphel the decision, my last shop was done outside proper times.

Then she agreed, I should have been paid on my first shop (the one I went through the line twice). But since it had been too long ago, she could not pay me for that assignment now. However, in consideration, she authorized payment for my last assignment to make up for the first one.

I was very pleased. I was also surprised. She went on to say: Quality control is under a lot of pressure to get their assignments completed as quickly as possible. Because of that, they do not want to spend any time thinking about deviations of any kind and routinely deny shops that are not absolutely by the book.

In these cases, I was told that we, the shopper, are expected to contact Market Force and discuss it with a supervisor. There is no ill will for these contacts. Like I said, it is expected. Supervisors are the ones to approve or deny anything out of the ordinary. She then said like all of you have said. It is best not to confuse anyone with extra information.

From now on, I will feel it is best to leave out the extra information. If something is caught on video and we are challenged, we should deal with it at that time only.

Anyway, I did get paid for one shop and feel good about the entire discussion.

Note: I am glad that I did not do any real bashing! I have seen others get carried away and "Burn their Bridges" in these discussions. Like I have said, I like to do business with Market Force. This is another reason why!