Pziburski - This flap is all about unfounded "scam" accusations presented without supporting facts. There's a thread on the Mystery Shopping Discussion forum addressing this problem. Please hop on there and make some suggestions about how to handle this: My Resolution about Anti-MSC Threads That Lack Facts.

Why do you people humor this idiot with any sort of response whatsoever. He/she is either a troll or lacks the competence to read a few pages of simple instructions.

And scanning typically does not require an advanced degree.

I think a lot of us are asking ourselves how much effort we want to expend trying to help.

What will probably work for me is to continue to try to help almost everyone, but to back off and be done with it immediately when they don't seem receptive. Posters in a state of rage should be allowed to wallow in it alone until they calm down and get rational.

Our favored MSPs don't need us to defend them. They need us to shop for them.

MF kicked me to the curb for a stupid reason.....but for you that shop and like them, carry on (no hard feelings).

I don't post often and I don't mystery shop on a regular basis, but I looked up & saw that I completed 23 jobs with Bestmark and have not had problems with them. Or if I have, a simple email with explanation has sufficed. In fact, there were a few times when the reviewer called me for editing clarification and did not "ding" me for the edits. All of the completed jobs were paid.

I think many of us, after shopping for a while, hook up with companies that fit our individual style and drop other companies that don't. It's as easy as that. Bestmark is one of my regular companies that I continue to work with. I can't comment on the other two since I have not shopped with them. Although I have to say I recently deleted my Market Force account because I found their shop sign up procedure taxing.

Shopping PNW SEA

Irene_L.A. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MF kicked me to the curb for a stupid
> reason.....but for you that shop and like them,
> carry on (no hard feelings).


I firmly believe MF kicks EVERYbody to the curb eventually and usually doesn't give a reason. But most people who are kicked to the curb have happily worked for MF for months or even years, and most would be still happily working for MF if they had not been kicked to the curb. That's why shoppers are usually so angry and disappointed when they are kicked to the curb. MF has good clients, fairly easy shops, fast and easy reports, lots of shops in all areas, allow self-assign, and they pay like clockwork. My point is: Expect to eventually be kicked to the curb and enjoy it while it lasts. Don't get locked into a relationship with MF, use them for what you want.

7 years working for MF and BM. Never had a problem with either of them. Work for them regularly.

When you new to mystery shopping you need you ask your scheduler questions about the shop form before you do the shop..I has no problem with MarketForce. BestMark ok.

I guess I'm somewhat surprised that there are truly simpletons out there. I consider it irresponsible for any beginner to make loud negative comments on the basis of five incidents divided over three companies. Someone who can't find anything good in three new employers simultaneously would probably have tremendous difficulties in other employment situastions as well. I know I'm dating myself, but doesn't anyone read Hubbard's Message to Garcia anymore? I'm not sure what chagrins me more, stupidity or arrogance. The combination of the two is, however, deadly.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs
Shopping the Mid Atlantic for Market Force

MaryLynn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Monteray and BestMark paid me faster than many of
> the other companies did. Unforturnetly for me, I
> had to cancel many of my Bestmark shops and they
> fired me! I can't really blame them but I miss
> them.

I have cancelled so many shops with them, I was ashamed to even dare look at the boards! LOL I have four jobs lined up in Sept. They love my daughter, she shops this week, they pay next week! JK, but seriously, she gets paid really fast, and they always work with her when she has a problem. There about the only company she actually works for after her 9 to 5 job. I've shopped many times for MF, never any problems, they call me all the time, with bonused shops. Never heard of Monteray though.

You guys must write very imaginative reports. I am impressed with your fantastic abilities to report what you "see" and conjour up magic buttons. Good job!

A few people have said something along these lines in this thread and in many other threads in this forum

"I firmly believe MF kicks EVERYbody to the curb eventually and usually doesn't give a reason"


Don't beat down the reporter now but I can't help but notice that some of the folks making that type of comment about Market Force are the same people who pick apart every other post someone makes in this forum. I suspect these folks are the same way with their mystery shops as well. Have you ever considered that about the umpteenth time in a row you filed a report with Market force picking apart their fortune 500 company client they decide that you are a little to gung ho for there needs and they give you a nice long time out. Ive worked for Market Force for years and still do but keep in mind i dont sit and nit pick to death their clients.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2012 01:40AM by SAMMYSLY.

Not that it's going to make much difference to those who have already formed opinions... But in the effort to help newer shoppers that are considering these companies...

I have been a mystery shopper for several years and have well over 2,000 shops under my belt. I have shopped for, and continue to shop for, these companies. I have not done enough with Monterey to comment - they just don't seem to have a lot in my areas of travel. But the small number of shops I have done for them have all been paid accurately and on time.

Bestmark's biggest problem, IMHO, is that they actually encourage shoppers to form a negative opinion of the company by REPEATEDLY listing IN ALL CAPS, all the things that they will deduct fees for, and all the different ways that your payment can be delayed, reduced, or rejected altogether. With that said, though, they continue to be one of the fastest-paying companies out there - and once you learn the nuances of their particular editors - you can sail through without issue 99.9% of the time. I have done literally hundreds of shops for them, and can count on 1 hand the number of times that a problem has been their fault.

MarketForce also continues to be one of my go-to companies when I am looking to round out a route with quick shops (especially fast food). They have, on fairly regular occasions, made mistakes - but once I bring it up, it is immediately corrected. I think their issue is just a sheer volume issue - they do just soooo many shops, that the law of averages is going to result in a higher # of problems. Bottom line here is - track your payments and you should have no problem with MFI.

Another point that many shoppers do not realize is that once an editor sees a shopper continually make the same mistakes - it is easy to just reject a shop out-of-hand, or send it back for revisions when the editor could have made the changes for the shopper. Shoppers do not realize the load that editors have - and the completely pathetic reports that come in from some. This industry has an 85% flake rate (on the shopper end) - so for every shop that you do (and do well) - there are 5-6 shops that are never completed as promised, completed wrong, or completed with a useless report. Cut the schedulers and editors some slack! If you saw 5-6 pieces of crap for every one good shop/report - your tolerance might be a little low, too! And if you saw the same shopper make the same mistake over and over again (regardless of how small it might seem) - again, your tolerance might get lowered quickly. The key is to learn from the inevitable mistakes that you will make - and don't make them again. And track your payments -companies make honest mistakes, too.

My last point in this tome is that we shoppers need to understand that MSP schedulers and editors from different companies DO talk to one another. In many high-dollar shop MSPs - the only way you can get in is by word-of-mouth and personal recommendations. But regardless, they do talk. And once you have burned a bridge with one company, your past actions WILL eventually catch up to you. You will then see your shops rejected out-of-hand, and thus the cycle will begin again. This is another reason why it is not a good idea to throw around the "fraud", "scam", and "crook" accusations. MSP people read these forums, too - and as one negative poster said (paraphrased), "With 3 guesses you can probably figure out who I am". Yeah... they can. And you have pretty much sealed your fate with any other company that they talk to, too.

Many of u may not agree with the "scam" posts, but "spamming" with recipes is totally off track IMO and clogs the threads. There are more appropriate sites to subscribe for recipes. If you don't agree with the posts, ignore them and read/reply to other posts. I come to this forum to learn & discuss about MS not cooking. Thanks.

Agreed but why beat a dead horse?

Hello HiTripper - You're absolutely right. I'm guilty as charged and I apologize for posting my guacamole recipe. I agree we should ignore posters we can't help and move on. I believe if I practice I can be better at doing that. It's good to hear from you, and you sound like the kind of reasonable person we need to post on the forum.

Lets remember Blanka

We have all told you that you are wrong. I realize you will not accept that statement but your name was well chosen.

You make your statements and then defend them to the death no matter what others say.
In this case there is YOUR truth and then EVERYONE else's truth.

Lets all shut him up by ignoring him. Some people can not be helped.

Steve



blanka Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lets take a look at the "Superstar" postings on
> this thread. They all seek to impugn my efforts to
> get the truth out about these SCAMS!!
> First, I can read.
>
> Second, I read all of the guiidelines ahead of
> time. Some require a receipt, some require a
> stopwatch, some require a business card, etc.
>
> They all have very specific time requirements that
> must be adhered to. You must do the shop on the
> scheduled day (or days) and complete the entire
> report by midnight or within 24 hours of the shop.
> You must upload or fax or send your proof of
> purchase or proof that you were there.
>
> You have to do certain things while there, and ask
> specific questions. You must take note of the
> service person, his/her age, hair style and
> dress.The questionaire has many details and check
> boxes, and some require a minimum number of
> characters to describe the interaction. You do all
> of this to perfection.
>
> Now, having gone this far, it does not take a
> rocket scientist to figure out that non-paymnet is
> a SCAM done by FRAUDS, and the people who are on
> here defending the SCAM are the SCAMARTISTS
> themselves.
>
> I will continue to post the truth about these
> horrific companies.

Steve,

I agree that some people can't be helped, but the sad truth is that Blanka hasn't said a thing since the 21st! Why this thread still lives is beyond me



Steve Brunnel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Lets all shut him up by ignoring him. Some people
> can not be helped.
>
> Steve

PFOTIS,

I really agree with your post overall. I think the lack of professionalism in completing jobs you agree to do and following the guidelines that supposedly happen with great frequency make life much more challenging for those of us who strive to do quality work.

The only issue I have is that oftentimes, the shopper isn't made aware of the problem they are making. If it is a repeated error, I do think it needs to be called to the attention of the shopper. While my scores are generally 10s, the feedback I get on shops that are lower scoring are not usually specific enough to be actionable.

It may be that there is more guidance with lower scoring shops and I don't see it, but it seems like many people truly don't know why they got a low score or a rejected shop.

SunnyDays2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have done over 300 shops with Market Force and
> never had a receipt rejected.
>
> Invest in a new scanner and practice with it...

Then you must know someone that works for them.. Come on...

jleetw1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SunnyDays2 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have done over 300 shops with Market Force
> and
> > never had a receipt rejected.
> >
> > Invest in a new scanner and practice with
> it...
>
> Then you must know someone that works for them..
> Come on...

I'm in the same boat. I don't even use a scanner or digital camera anymore. The camera on my smartphone is good enough.

I don't know anyone that works for them. Now, are you going to question my honesty, too?

I likewise know no one who works for them. And I have completed over 500 shops since October.

Cheers!

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs
Shopping the Mid-Atlantic

I also have had no receipts rejected. I've worked with them since 2008. It really isn't that hard to scan and upload a legible receipt. There are other things they are much pickier about.

I have to jump on the receipt bandwagon after working with them since 2004. Last e-mail regarding the number of shops completed was about two years ago and I was up to 500 then. Over the years my receipts have been scanned, photographed with my phone and my digital camera, faxed and uploaded directly to the site and never was a receipt rejected. If only I could say the same thing about the actual shops.

Incidentally, that Smart phone scanner is a great idea. I downloaded it onto my Android ouple of months ago, and it keeps you honest. It is critical to pay attention to the rules, which are (1) turn in the receipts and CPI, and all related documentation ON THE SAME DAY, which generally means by midnight. You can give yourself the 12 hours (or eight, as the case may be) after that IF YOU HAVE SENT IN THE DOCUMENTATION ON TIME. Sorry about the caps, but I did notice that this is a big rejection sticking point. If you set your smart phone properly, you can do the scan as soon as you're back in the car and have it uploaded long before you ever go home.

Regards

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs
Shopping the Mid-Atlantic!

What if she is right? I have shopped for Market Force and I think they are usually great. BUT...what if, like in the plot of the movie "Erin Brokovich", some company randomly decides to throw out every 1,242th report? That is how the insurance company in the movie made money, by denying every 40th or so claim regardless of merit, forcing the persons with cancer and other diseases to go without treatment and sue for coverage, which they didn't have the resources to do.

Also, I have driven through the intersection of Flower and Lakewood several thousand times with no accident. That has no bearing on whether or not a new visitor to my town will get creamed at the same intersection by a guy running a red light. If a company is doing something weird, like rejecting a specific number of reports from only first-timers, how would our previous positive experiences, no matter how many, have any bearing? Wouldn't we want to know if over time we see a pattern of first timers' reports being rejected for "no reason"? How many first timers would even know to come to a forum to complain? And if they did, they would get chewed out and told to make a certain number of positive posts before they are allowed to vent.

And someone who posts five times here is probably no more ignorant than someone who has posted 5000 times....that is also irrelevant. A low number of posts does not mean the poster is necessarily less truthful or experienced. Someone may have posted 5000 times in a different forum. Maybe they are a bit obsessed about a wrong that was done to them and need to broadcast it in several places/different forums...and don't have patience to post five positive posts first in every new one they join. I know that I don't.

I extremely dislike having to wade through all these recipes. Its a dead horse when everyone edits their posts to remove them.

One thing you are not taking into consideration, we have all been new shoppers and first time shoppers for companies.

It is not the number of posts that is an issue all by itself or even that this poster or any other has an issue with a company. Bottom line, screaming scam and ripoff is not the way to start. Making complaints without providing details is counter productive. One hit wonders who come here to complain or register many times under multiple aliases to keep repeating the accusations are not here for help or to become part of this community.

Dr Phil,

Lets do a DNA test to see who the Baby Daddy is...

Gees. sniff sniff


LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One thing you are not taking into consideration,
> we have all been new shoppers and first time
> shoppers for companies.
>
> It is not the number of posts that is an issue all
> by itself or even that this poster or any other
> has an issue with a company. Bottom line,
> screaming scam and ripoff is not the way to start.
> Making complaints without providing details is
> counter productive. One hit wonders who come here
> to complain or register many times under multiple
> aliases to keep repeating the accusations are not
> here for help or to become part of this community.

@HorseFeathers I get what you are saying. And, you could be right. This could have been a "perfect storm" of three bad experiences in a row, three different companies, and the poor person struck by lightning would surely be alarmed!

I think it's much more likely that lightning didn't strike.

Based on my decade of experience in moderating forums, I look for these flags:

1. Using more than one alias
2. A new alias posts solely to make or support a complaint
3. Conspiracy theories
4. Repeating the same accusations but not answering questions with supporting details about what happened
5. They never tell us they did anything wrong, everything was the fault of someone else, they are perfect
6. No demonstrated interest in resolving the matter amicably
7. Complaints about the tone of the replies (the "tone argument") while failing to answer questions directly
8. Attempts to derail discussion of the complaint
9. Personal attacks on anyone who does not agree lock step with the complaint


In general, what I am looking for are patterns of behavior that involve two or more of these:
- Deception
- Attempts to manipulate the readers
- Irresponsibility
- Recklessness
- Learning nothing from error

People who use a forum should find the time they spend on that forum useful.

It isn't useful to have to investigate patterns of posts for reckless, irresponsible, deceptive, manipulative posts from "perfect" people. Instead, it's maddening.

I waded through these pages so I could learn something about Marketforce and Monterey, because those company names had come up in my searches. I don't think reading all that wasted my time. I confess I skipped over most of the recipes.