zlinedavid is right. I ran into a similar issue with the whole time/date stamp requirement of one of the MSCs for one of their clients. When I found out my camera doesn't print time/date stamps, the manufacturer (and the guy at Staples) asked me why I needed this. I just told them it was "a client requirement" for some work I do. They both said it is so easy to fake the time/date why bother!

zlinedavid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It proves nothing as to if the shop was performed.
> For all they know, I could have tied my phone to
> my dog's collar and trained her to sit in the
> parking lot for 10 minutes, then come home.
>
> LisaSTL Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > LOL, that's it!
> >
> > There are other issues with this concept that I
> > didn't think about before. How in the world are
> > they going to deal with both the inaccuracies
> with
> > provided addresses AND the inaccuracies
> inherent
> > in GPS programs. Before one of the latest
> updates
> > my GPS app would say I had gotten home when I
> was
> > about 6 houses away. Tell me how that proves I
> > made it to the correct location? It also
> doesn't
> > prove anyone actually entered the store and
> spoke
> > to an associate. A shopper who has no problem
> with
> > supplying a false shop will have no problem
> > pulling into the parking lot and sitting there
> for
> > the required length of time or taking care of
> some
> > personal shopping at a store a few doors down.

So how do you figure the MS company makes profit from you having or buying a smart phone? I cringe when I see the basic lack of understanding of how business works when I see posts like that.

And going a step further, if the MS company does not make a profit, from where does the money come to pay shopper's fees?

AARRGHHHHHHHHHH

cynb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> New e-mail. In order to do this shop you must have
> a smart phone/Android in order to do a GPS
> location and send the report w. your phone. It is
> a demo at a wharehouse store.
>
> I am assuming that this is some kind of test to
> see how many shoppers will take this and have the
> technology. I know some of you guys have this
> stuff, but I do not, but could easily do this with
> a camera and doing the report online.
> Isn't it enough that we have to have a broadband
> laptop, cell phone, printer, pay for paper and
> ink?
> This indicates to me that MSCs want to make more
> profit at our expense.
> Are we not working our tails off enough to try to
> make some kind of income?

I have a smart phone. I've had one for 5 years now. I'd much rather geoverify than buy a candybar. I'm new to this industry so maybe I'm naive but I'm not taking this personally at all. And I'm looking forward to writing off my data plan for tax purposes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2012 11:10PM by summerisis.

If the MSC gets more profit from having reports submitted to the client sooner, and you must admit that companies would likely pay up a bit more for reports that are much quicker, then the MSC is making more profit while the shopper is shelling out.

While I didn't write the original post, I was in business 20 years and understand exactly how business works.

ArtFromNY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So how do you figure the MS company makes profit
> from you having or buying a smart phone? I cringe
> when I see the basic lack of understanding of how
> business works when I see posts like that.
>
> And going a step further, if the MS company does
> not make a profit, from where does the money come
> to pay shopper's fees?
>
> AARRGHHHHHHHHHH
>
> cynb Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > New e-mail. In order to do this shop you must
> have
> > a smart phone/Android in order to do a GPS
> > location and send the report w. your phone. It
> is
> > a demo at a wharehouse store.
> >
> > I am assuming that this is some kind of test to
> > see how many shoppers will take this and have
> the
> > technology. I know some of you guys have this
> > stuff, but I do not, but could easily do this
> with
> > a camera and doing the report online.
> > Isn't it enough that we have to have a
> broadband
> > laptop, cell phone, printer, pay for paper and
> > ink?
> > This indicates to me that MSCs want to make
> more
> > profit at our expense.
> > Are we not working our tails off enough to try
> to
> > make some kind of income?

The complaint is not companies making money. They are supposed to do that. The complaint is requiring the shopper to use technology that will cost the shopper money and reduce an already small profit margin. Most of us feel the shopper also deserves a profit.

Are you also aware that Geo-verify is through a third party and there have been issues with the privacy policy? Wouldn't you have an issue with a company you are doing business with allowing a third party to collect and sell information about you including where the heck you have been at specific times on specific days? Way too much big brother for my taste.

summerisis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a smart phone. I've had one for 5 years
> now. I'd much rather geoverify than buy a
> candybar. I'm new to this industry so maybe I'm
> naive but I'm not taking this personally at all.
> And I'm looking forward to writing off my data
> plan for tax purposes.

No, I'm not worried. I've been "checking in" at venues for years for non-MS purposes. Selling info that I was at a post office last tuesday morning is no big deal to me. Maybe someone will send me a coupon for stamps.


LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you also aware that Geo-verify is through a
> third party and there have been issues with the
> privacy policy? Wouldn't you have an issue with a
> company you are doing business with allowing a
> third party to collect and sell information about
> you including where the heck you have been at
> specific times on specific days? Way too much big
> brother for my taste.
>
> summerisis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have a smart phone. I've had one for 5 years
> > now. I'd much rather geoverify than buy a
> > candybar. I'm new to this industry so maybe
> I'm
> > naive but I'm not taking this personally at
> all.
> > And I'm looking forward to writing off my data
> > plan for tax purposes.

Brak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Instead of
> that $10 fee $5 reimbursement the MSC will just
> say to use your GPS app on your phone to prove you
> were there and only pay you $10 and then they can
> say if you don't have a smartphone you must get a
> receipt and not be reimbursed. If there is a way
> for the MSCs to make more money at the shoppers
> expense they will do it.

If that starts happening, shoppers WILL take into consideration the $5 reimbursement they're losing out on. I know I do. However, if all I have to do is take a picture with my cell and upload the picture then and there without having to answer a bunch of questions and provide narrative, then that could be a fair trade-off for my time.

As a shopper, I don't particularly like the GPS tracking requirement. I bit the bullet last summer and got a smartphone so I could edit while driving down to Florida and back. I also know I can turn off my GPS tracking, which I think it is...just don't ask me how to turn it back on. Also, if it's simply being discreet, some non-smartphones have good cameras, too. My old one did. So a part of me doesn't want to give them the satisfaction of seeing my exact location. How do I know if they have access to it, that they won't use it for other shops? Then again, when I'm doing what I should, why would I care?

As an editor, I understand that for every decent shopper, there are three that aren't. While there are a bunch of shoppers who visit the forums and have a good grasp of what shopping is about. But there are even more who don't and have no clue about the forums or what's expected. Those shoppers are probably the reason they want the GPS done. I'd rather buy a pack of gum, though, and upload my receipt as proof.

If it's convienent and financially worth it, I might give one of these shops a try. Then judge whether they're worth it or not.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2012 12:08AM by AlwaysAngie.

Okay then I just have to ask. Are you part of the Facebook generation?

summerisis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, I'm not worried. I've been "checking in" at
> venues for years for non-MS purposes. Selling
> info that I was at a post office last tuesday
> morning is no big deal to me. Maybe someone will
> send me a coupon for stamps.

I'm glad you wrote this because when I first started and was reading the instructions and guidelines for jobs I was overwhelmed and felt like I was being treated as if I were incompetent. There are guidelines that give examples of how to answer a "yes" or "no" question! But then I started to think that perhaps a lot of people doing MS jobs are not too bright and need to be told to "write in complete sentences, capitalize, and use proper grammar."

AlwaysAngie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brak Wrote:

> As an editor, I understand that for every decent
> shopper, there are three that aren't. While there
> are a bunch of shoppers who visit the forums and
> have a good grasp of what shopping is about. But
> there are even more who don't and have no clue
> about the forums or what's expected. Those
> shoppers are probably the reason they want the GPS
> done. I'd rather buy a pack of gum, though, and
> upload my receipt as proof.

*Chuckles* Yup. Facebook, Meetup, Yelp, etc....


LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay then I just have to ask. Are you part of the
> Facebook generation?
>
> summerisis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No, I'm not worried. I've been "checking in"
> at
> > venues for years for non-MS purposes. Selling
> > info that I was at a post office last tuesday
> > morning is no big deal to me. Maybe someone
> will
> > send me a coupon for stamps.

A smartphone conversion would cut into my already narrow profit margin and I do have a problem with "being tracked". It seems that some of the MS companies are feeling us out right now to see how many shoppers they might lose with the conversion. Now that I think about it, I have received quite a few requirements to update my shopper profile over the last six months and this was one of the questions. If this is the direction that MS companies are moving toward, they should be up front about it and this should be a topic at the next MSPA Conference.

I knew it!!!! Actually the meteoric rise of Facebook, MySpace, Twitter and even blogs and forums has helped to take away any long standing ideas of privacy. I have no need or desire to share everything in my life. There are parts which are for publication on a site like this and there is a heck of a lot more that no one but my close friends really needs to know about. Even if you don't care who knows where you've been or what you are doing, I hope you can appreciate the difference between sharing the information by choice and being forced to share it

summerisis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> *Chuckles* Yup. Facebook, Meetup, Yelp, etc....
>
>
> LisaSTL Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Okay then I just have to ask. Are you part of
> the
> > Facebook generation?
> >

This is interesting to me becuase when I started all the applications asked whether or not I owned an iPhone. I responded that I did not own an iPhone but a Droid. I came into this thinking that I was disadvantage for not owning an iPhone. I like using my phone because I can audio record the whole shop, take photos, email receipts to myself, use the stop watch function, etc. with one device. I can even take notes on my phone while standing in line because nobody thinks anything of someone "texting" while standing in line.

I am sympathetic to those have been doing this job, and doing it well, without the technology but are now being asked (or forced) into making this conversion whereas I am merely able to use MS as a means of offsetting the cost of a phone that I already own.

The scary thing is that if you don't convert, then you'll surely see your profits dipped into.

KathyC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A smartphone conversion would cut into my already
> narrow profit margin and I do have a problem with
> "being tracked". It seems that some of the MS
> companies are feeling us out right now to see how
> many shoppers they might lose with the conversion.
> Now that I think about it, I have received quite a
> few requirements to update my shopper profile over
> the last six months and this was one of the
> questions. If this is the direction that MS
> companies are moving toward, they should be up
> front about it and this should be a topic at the
> next MSPA Conference.

I have a 'smart' phone and a 'dumb' phone. GPS is turned off and will stay that way. Since (according to GPS, google maps, mapquest, and yahoo maps) a 5-lane 9 mile long street does not exist.................
The 'dumb' phone is because the 'smart' phone broke down one time and I had to have another phone for them to call me on.
If an MSC wants to GPS me - tuff! I refuse. You have no idea how stupid a southern female can act!

I beg to differ about seeing my profits dipped into because of Geo-verify. I tend to gravitate toward companies that are reputable, pay reasonable fees, pay in a timely manner and respect their shoppers. The companies pushing this are only hitting one out of four.

My lifestyle is certainly not going to be impacted by losing the occasional filler shop. I've seen a lot more shops go by the wayside and every time I was concerned there have been more and better opportunities out there if I looked hard enough. Three years ago I made a nice chunk of change from gas station audits for Market Force. They lowered the fee, I stopped doing them and ended up making more money each of the following months. For a long time I had a lot of the big electronics store audits, due to changes in that program I was getting less and less money until I stopped doing those. The months following I was available for some great jobs and made twice what I could have made on those in half the time.

Geo-verify can be just like the Maritz and Trendsource attempts to force ICs to have an EIN in that if enough people refuse we can effect a change. Sometimes you just have to stand up for the principle of the thing

Cherry@Pinnacle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm a scheduler with Pinnacle Mystery Shopping.
>
> Our operating system allows "geoverify" in the
> surveys, but we haven't used it yet. We've avoided
> it, as it's just another thing for the editors to
> check. Especially since we already receive POVs
> and time information for the shops from our
> shoppers anyway.
>
> There are cases where it could have helped us
> though. It's not completely uncommon that a
> shopper visits the wrong branch location without
> realizing it. Or that they receive a business card
> with a different address (it might be that the
> employee is helping out at a different branch or
> it could spell something more problematic). In
> those instances, the geo verify feature can give
> immediate closure.
>
> It's great to get your feedback!
>
> Cherry Stowe
> Account Manager
> Pinnacle Financial Strategies - Mystery Shopping
> Services
> Cherry.Stowe@pinnstrat.com
> www.sassieshop.com/2proreview
>
> Like us on Facebook at
> www.facebook.com/pinnaclemysteryshopping
> Follow us on Twitter at
> twitter.com/pinnaclemysshop


OK Cherry, I think that we all understand it would be helpful for the MSCs but we all have to buy enough tech stuff to work. If it is optional that is fine. BTW I work for Pinnancle and it is just fine.

LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I beg to differ about seeing my profits dipped
> into because of Geo-verify. I tend to gravitate
> toward companies that are reputable, pay
> reasonable fees, pay in a timely manner and
> respect their shoppers. The companies pushing this
> are only hitting one out of four.
>
> My lifestyle is certainly not going to be impacted
> by losing the occasional filler shop. I've seen a
> lot more shops go by the wayside and every time I
> was concerned there have been more and better
> opportunities out there if I looked hard enough.
> Three years ago I made a nice chunk of change from
> gas station audits for Market Force. They lowered
> the fee, I stopped doing them and ended up making
> more money each of the following months. For a
> long time I had a lot of the big electronics store
> audits, due to changes in that program I was
> getting less and less money until I stopped doing
> those. The months following I was available for
> some great jobs and made twice what I could have
> made on those in half the time.
>
> Geo-verify can be just like the Maritz and
> Trendsource attempts to force ICs to have an EIN
> in that if enough people refuse we can effect a
> change. Sometimes you just have to stand up for
> the principle of the thing

You go Lisa! Because they can, doesn't mean they should. I value my privacy and my precious homelife away from work. This is why I chose to become an IC in the first place. I do not desire to become "joined at the hip" with the many companies that I work for. The most recent survey that I received asked if I had a smartphone stating that if I had one, "I could receive and respond to client needs more quickly and enhance client retention". I cannot do so any faster than I already do now, given field driven circumstances beyond my control, with or without,a smartphone.

Trust issue or not, I can't afford the extra expense of a smartphone. Besides, I am extremely happy with my $10.00 monthly plan for my $29.00 Tracfone. I already have a netbook, tablet and aircard along with the digital camera. I am not spending any more money on equipment. I also have the Garmin GPS and it is true that it will often send me to a different location usually on the wrong side of the street.

From a scheduler's viewpoint, they are looking for shoppers with a smart phone to do the shops, not expecting anyone to go buy a smartphone. Sometime it's the provider's clients who make such requests, not the MSP itself.

Judi, how would clients know about Geo-verify and why would it have come out of the blue and been on shops across the board for certain MSCs?

It may or may not be at the request of the client however let us remember that we shoppers (not meaning every one of us) have earned the distrust of both the MSP's and the clients.

I will never forget the time I was reading a forum on the MSP's own web site that said...... because I do not have to send in a receipt I just purchase the 50 cent lottery ticket but charge the full $3.50 that I am allowed for purchases.

Not long after we had to start faxing in the receipt.

This shopper was just plain stupid and a thief.




Judi Hess Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From a scheduler's viewpoint, they are looking for
> shoppers with a smart phone to do the shops, not
> expecting anyone to go buy a smartphone. Sometime
> it's the provider's clients who make such
> requests, not the MSP itself.

I have a GPS in my car and use it to be sure I get to the provided location, EVERY TIME. A few times I did go to the wrong location. As I understand it, the MSPs are looking for a geo-verification to prove that we are where we are, when we say. I understand, but we provide them with a business card and/or a receipt. That should be good enough.

If they are selling a technological capability to their clients, they really should canvass the shoppers to find out IF we have the capability and/or are willing to invest in it. I, for one, am not going to go out of my way to add that widgit on my cell phone. When I upgrade the phone, if it has the feature and the feature can be utilized without incurring additional expense, that will be one thing.

My bigger complaint is about the ridiculously low pay provided by most MSPs. I think we need to band together to refuse to do low paying jobs. Can we use the IMSC for collective bargaining? To do a self-storage shop, for example for $6 ??? Certainly not worth it to me. Considering the time to & from the shop, the shop time itself and the time to port, the shop should be $16 at least. IMO. Who's with me?

How accurate is the GPS? My stepson has one in his car and believes it even when it takes him in the wrong direction. As far as the shop mentioned went, I do not shop demonstrators as I am one myself and do not like being shopped.

It varies. It's not just the accuracy of the GPS it is also the accuracy of the address provided. There are also other weird variables. I once went to an office supply store and the address provided was for the street it faced. That street was a 4 lane divided highway and the store had to be accessed from the street behind the store and that was what the receipt reflected. Receipts and business cards almost always have store numbers on them. That is much more accurate than even an address.

I have another shop requiring me to bring my cell phone. I have done a few of those and of course, I always have my cell phone. But nobody asked for it before and since there is no GPS on mine, what could they get from it? It is not an inconvenience for me but I am sure if I ask, I will be told that the client requires it, wthout further explanation.

Another issue is the Facebook and social network, another one of my least favourite. Many MS companies are asking to like them there so that we can check on available shops. Is anyone doing that? I don't and I am still swamped.

Yeah, I am planning on getting a smart phone but NOT because of ms. However, I am definitely not going to frequent the social networks for shops. And that's final!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2012 01:05AM by risinghorizon.

1) GEO Verify: I don't like the idea of being tracked, but I had one instance where it could have come in very helpful. I did a couple of credit union shops once and for some reason one of them had receipts with a different branch address printed on them. I didn't realize it until the MSC called and said something about it. I don't think they were going to pay me, thinking it was the wrong branch. I was adament that it was the correct branch because the address on the receipt was at least 10 miles away and not anywhere I go very often AND the branch I actually shopped, the correct one, was very close to my home. Like I would go out of my way and shop the wrong branch? Don't think so. I guess they checked everything out on a map because they did pay me.

2) Facebook: I think Facebook is great and can be great for businesses. But tell me WHY I would "like" a MSC when only close friends and family know I mystery shop. I don't know about other people, but I don't want it generally known that I'm a mystery shopper.

And my understanding is that at this point Facebook is requiring real names in their registrations or at least not multiple accounts. I am the owner of a Facebook account but ONLY because of a shop.

I opened a bank account with BOA as per shop requirements and was duly waiting my 90 days to close it without penalty. Suddenly the paychecks of a teacher on the other side of the state started being direct deposited to my account. I reported it to BOA who told me they could do nothing about it and that the real owner of the funds would need to step forward. We spent months going around on this and finally I found her on Facebook (her name was on the deposits along with the school district name). I joined solely for the purpose of sending her a message that she should check where her direct deposits were going and have her employer reclaim them and send them to her account. I never got a response--probably she figured I was a crackpot. But the email account I attached it to gets 4-5 'friend' requests per day. Eventually I had to go through bank regulators to get the woman's money pulled from my account so I could close it. Once the regulators got involved the money was cleared out of my account fairly quickly.

My Facebook registration had no information of merit to it so I have no idea who all these 'friends' are that I have suddenly acquired, but I suspect they all want to sell me something or sell me on something.

Thumbs up for Facebook, the secret is "How you use it". This social network has provided me with the ability to see and speak with my only daughter, (skype), keep up as we are all scattered, from San Francisco, L.A., Chicago, Mexico city and Cancun. I also have a cousin in Boston and grew up with him. I can see my cousins family grow thru cyberspace.
I do not put personal things, but found out about a recent death, I have bounderies, and see it as a tool to improve your lifestyle. For those that don't have use for it, don't trash it, it has been a great source of info. for folks like me with family all over the place.


When you know better, you do better......

summerisis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm glad you wrote this because when I first
> started and was reading the instructions and
> guidelines for jobs I was overwhelmed and felt
> like I was being treated as if I were incompetent.
> There are guidelines that give examples of how to
> answer a "yes" or "no" question! But then I
> started to think that perhaps a lot of people
> doing MS jobs are not too bright and need to be
> told to "write in complete sentences, capitalize,
> and use proper grammar."

Ugh! The reports can be atrocious! No capitalization, no punctuation, no idea about how to use proper grammar, used slang or abbreviations, didn't explain a single no answer or write anything relevant, can't spell, wrote a brief sentence for the narrative, or acted rude, judgmental, obnoxious, and personally offended over minor things.

One shopper kept marking the answer no to whether the associate suggested a certain brand. This is because after the associate offered assistance, the shopper just stared at the associte, waiting for them to break into conversation about the brand without any prompting from the shopper like, "I'm looking for a fuel filter." I sent a few emails explaining everything so they would understand. Didn't help. These were super easy shops. I did one and WISH there were more in my area. It literally took me two minutes in the store and two or three online to answer five questions and write a brief paragraph for narrative.

It makes me wonder how those types of people even found out about MSing because it's apparent they don't have a clue and have never visited a forum to get an idea of what MSing is about. Thank God for the decent shoppers or else I would quit.

P.S. Geotracking wouldn't help with any of the issues I mentioned. If it became a requirement for the shops I do, I'd stop MSing for the principle of it. My record stands for itself. I don't mind if special shops are offered with it and I accept but I will not have my every movement tracked by any company. It has nothing to do with doing anything wrong, either. I am not the type of person to submit to others so they know every little thing I'm' doing. They'll know if I want them to, period.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2012 11:16PM by AlwaysAngie.