@Shop-et-al wrote:

How do your theorists explain the low incidence of the disease and high rate of recovery in this rural place? Even vulnerable populations such as those in assisted living situations are surviving the dratted disease here!

This is a guess, Shop-et-al, but:

a.) Low incidence is due to different states having their own growth curves.

The virus hit NY hardest, because of international flights to Europe (genetic testing has shown most of NY's cases came from there), where COVID-19 seemed to take root more after leaving China. Their densely populated cityscapes and public transportation made it easy to spread. Plus, people in the U.S. (including me) took it lightly early on.

Rural areas probably have less international travelers and are more spread out in terrain. Their location away from the epicenters may provide more time before it gets to rural areas. But, I would prepare for it. Just as flu gets to rural areas, I'm guessing so too will COVID-19.

b.) Not sure about the high rate of recovery in rural areas. There are theories about viral load that I've seen differing opinions on. One theory is that the more particles of the virus you get into your system, the more deadly it can be to you. Those who get less particles may have less complications. Perhaps in urban areas, where there are numerous multiple (esp., asymptomatic) spreaders who are within close contact with each other, the viral loads may be higher than in other areas.

Some speculate that doctors and healthcare workers getting very sick can be attributed to high viral loads from seeing COVID-19 patients all day. It makes logical sense, but I don't think we know enough to say for sure.

I think the main thing is that rural areas may not have been "tested" yet with COVID-19 outbreaks. The distance from big cities may have afforded you all more time. But, that is reason to definitely learn from the lessons of Wuhan, Italy, and NYC.

Take precautions now! (((HUG)))

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2020 03:11AM by shoptastic.

Whoa. There is a paragraph devoted to precautions. What makes you think that all these precautions will be ineffective? They are the same measures used worldwide and which are helping to flatten the curve!

It was a rhetorical question. The fact of our high survival rate is what it is. Theoretical and mathematical models are not equipped to explain why we are survivors here. I think it has to do with things like regularly beholding wide open spaces; being wind-blown into gnarly strong souls that carry on; sharing the state with all kinds of critters (and eating some of them); and possibly genetics, diet, and breathing generally clean air.

I am beginning to think that we are pissing off people who want a specific, predetermined mathematical outcome-- simply by being alive! Go us.

*eta* There might be something to the air idea. Italy reports that droplets stay in dense polluted air and travel far, which might account for the stubbornness of the disease there.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2020 01:15AM by Shop-et-al.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

It was a rhetorical question. The fact of our high survival rate is what it is. Theoretical and mathematical models are not equipped to explain why we are survivors here. I think it has to do with things like regularly beholding wide open spaces; being wind-blown into gnarly strong souls that carry on; sharing the state with all kinds of critters (and eating some of them); and possibly genetics, diet, and breathing generally clean air.

Shop - I think it's too early to tell re: rural areas. As stated before, the virus is just now picking up steam outside of NY/NJ. If you look at graphs of case growth, you see this happening. NY/NJ may have stabilized, but outside of them is where you see all the growth now.

I'm not sure rural areas have a high survival rate, as perhaps they may not have been "truly hit" yet. These coming months will be crucial. My state of Virginia's curve may have a crucial period coming up literally this week or so.

Do you have a citation, by the way, for a higher survival rate of people in your area and/or rural areas?

Regardless, each person is different, so we never know what will happen to us when/if we contract the virus. Continue to try to avoid it! Eat healthy. Stay Safe!

I know - I'm sounding like a grandma! I will continue to say these things until we get a vaccine!!

Here is a question:

IF your state opens back up and business starts returning to normal, where would you be willing to shop (ms-ing or personal shopping) sans a vaccine?

Will you continue to voluntarily wear a mask, social distance, and avoid certain "higher risk" places? Would you eat at a place like Texas Roadhouse in the dining room? Would you take a cruise?

A last seen count, there are fewer than 400 cases and greater than 70% survival rate. I think. I just tossed the most recent information I had, but more will appear soon. There are frequent updates in various places for us to keep track of what is happening here. The other cases are in process and most will likely recover.

This information will likely change slightly because one county is especially hard hit for several reasons. Those numbers are not typical. So overall, we are surviving here, and it might be related to the air quality.

Considering recent information from hard-hit Italy and my state, it is likely that our less polluted air is not holding covid droplets in suspension long enough for it to survive wind movement, etc. Because people and places are far flung, the dratted disease probably dissipates before it reaches any transmission site. This is a thing, and it is likely related to the absence of high-polluting industries here. Thus, we probably will not be "truly hit" as some people want to believe we should be based upon urban, industrial, and crowding conditions which do not exist here (or exist in small pockets, such as the one county). We have low risk, low incidence, and high survival overall.

Nothing changes about my willingness to go back to work. I am willing to work at any IC gig that I can get to in the limited time I have. This always depends up on the early, daily job. I cannot go far on most days without sacrificing sleep and/or personal time. If the same jobs are available, I will repeat them as often as possible to make up for lost revenue. If the jobs are not as available, so be it. If I am resourceful, I will not miss the revenue from them. As for the types of gigs, I usually do merchandising projects. I have masks and gloves and can use them indefinitely for this covert work. If there are enough merch gigs, they will pay for the expensive masks! The very idea of being stuck on a public ship until land appears and then having to go back after a port of call repels me, so that is not a consideration at any time. [I must say that I, on a large private yacht with a quiet and talented crew, would be just right. I can't afford these dreams, but this is how I would want to travel the seas.] I rarely do restaurant shops and have not eaten at TR. Apparently, I am by nature a low-risk person!

@shoptastic wrote:

@Shop-et-al wrote:

It was a rhetorical question. The fact of our high survival rate is what it is. Theoretical and mathematical models are not equipped to explain why we are survivors here. I think it has to do with things like regularly beholding wide open spaces; being wind-blown into gnarly strong souls that carry on; sharing the state with all kinds of critters (and eating some of them); and possibly genetics, diet, and breathing generally clean air.

Shop - I think it's too early to tell re: rural areas. As stated before, the virus is just now picking up steam outside of NY/NJ. If you look at graphs of case growth, you see this happening. NY/NJ may have stabilized, but outside of them is where you see all the growth now.

I'm not sure rural areas have a high survival rate, as perhaps they may not have been "truly hit" yet. These coming months will be crucial. My state of Virginia's curve may have a crucial period coming up literally this week or so.

Do you have a citation, by the way, for a higher survival rate of people in your area and/or rural areas?

Regardless, each person is different, so we never know what will happen to us when/if we contract the virus. Continue to try to avoid it! Eat healthy. Stay Safe!

I know - I'm sounding like a grandma! I will continue to say these things until we get a vaccine!!

@Shop-et-al wrote:

A last seen count, there are fewer than 400 cases and greater than 70% survival rate.

I'm guessing you meant something else by this part, Shop-et-al! If ~30% of COVID-19 patients in your area are dying, that's an unspeakable catastrophe!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2020 01:03PM by shoptastic.

This is not the total. Some people are either recovering or dying. Most will recover. A few might not, depending upon their individual situations. And, the majority of deaths are clustered. This aspect will improve, hopefully, because tptb are finding ways to reduce contact and limit spread in that area. This will bring the numbers for that place up a bit, at least.

We have few risk factors and will not incur them. New risks will not appear hear, and existing risks are not going to increase!

I know that you want to use scare tactics with me, but that does not work. Facts are helpful. I will stick with those.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

I know that you want to use scare tactics with me, but that does not work. Facts are helpful. I will stick with those.

Nah, not scare tactics. Just friendly care reminders to stay safe.

You haven't read my PM yet, SEL. It's still sitting there saying unread.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

This is not the total. Some people are either recovering or dying. Most will recover. A few might not, depending upon their individual situations. And, the majority of deaths are clustered. This aspect will improve, hopefully, because tptb are finding ways to reduce contact and limit spread in that area. This will bring the numbers for that place up a bit, at least.

We have few risk factors and will not incur them. New risks will not appear hear, and existing risks are not going to increase!

I know that you want to use scare tactics with me, but that does not work. Facts are helpful. I will stick with those.

You just can't fix crazy.........

I think most people just scroll past it. Some toggle.

How tragic that the world must contend with COVID-19 as well as adamant denial of facts such as the existence and importance of place differences.

But on the plus side, some people still have an interest in geography and how/why place matters. These are my peeps! They provide information and insight without expectation of being seen, heard, believed, or heralded.

This guy in my state went bonkers about the stay-at-home ordinance and ripped into our governor over it on social media.

He wrote: "If you are paranoid and getting sick just don’t go out. It shouldn’t keep those of us from living our lives. The madness has to stop,” he allegedly wrote March 15.

He died last week from COVID-19.

Poetic justice, and yet how many people did he infect with the virus before he died?

Are you comparing health-affirming statements from me, adamant social media avoider, to ripping a governor publicly? That is interesting. Meanwhile, the state's new numbers show that 7 of 491 have died and 334 have recovered. The others are tbd. Overall, we are well and surviving despite unfounded predictions (and tacit demands) to the contrary.

In addition to the helpful air, mandatory quarantining for residents and many others, and closing schools for as long as necessary, the other major factor for us might be to shut down the state's tourism until at least next summer season (unless developing information indicates an earlier opening). Even though I think it is a good idea to add the lengthy tourism shutdown, I will not complain if tptb make another decision about that.

Why do you always assume everything is all about you, SEA? I was posting about something that happened in my state that has nothing to do with you. SMH.

Probably quite a few. His family members got sick but none of them died. It's sad all the same.

@pegc wrote:

Poetic justice, and yet how many people did he infect with the virus before he died?

No, I wasn't. I rarely read your posts unless I get a PM from someone telling me that you made some sort of (usually snide) comment concerning one of my posts, then I go back and skim through to see what it is. Just not interested.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

Are you comparing health-affirming statements from me, adamant social media avoider, to ripping a governor publicly?

"Flattening the curve" is not the same as, "It is over." It is just that the growth RATE is no longer getting larger every day. Heck in the US today we seem to have about 99% of confirmed cases surviving while only 1% die. So which of your 100 closest friends and family will you doom while the other 99 just get sick enough to survive with possible organ damage for an unnecessarily shortened lifetime?

Frankly, if/when I or a close friend or family member get COVID, I would prefer that the medical staff treating it has had a day or two of R&R in the past seven days, has had 8 hours of sleep in the past 24 and is not so concerned about their personal safety and the safety of their own family that they can calmly and comfortably care for me/us. Maybe we will be lucky and get light enough cases we don't need hospitalization, but on the chance that we do need extra care it would be nice if the hospital is not overwhelmed.

Agreed, Flash, and also that key word "confirmed" is important because the number of actual cases and deaths likely does not equal the number of confirmed cases and deaths.

Great questions.

I would be comfortable doing (with mask) mystery shops that just require an associate interaction. Since it would be impossible to eat without a mask, most dine-in shops would be determined on a case-by-case basis. And definitely NOT crowded places like Texas Roadhouse.

I've been on several cruises in the past few years and would avoid them just for that reason. The only type that's still on my bucket list is a European river cruise.

@shoptastic wrote:

Here is a question:

IF your state opens back up and business starts returning to normal, where would you be willing to shop (ms-ing or personal shopping) sans a vaccine?

Will you continue to voluntarily wear a mask, social distance, and avoid certain "higher risk" places? Would you eat at a place like Texas Roadhouse in the dining room? Would you take a cruise?

@Flash wrote:

"Flattening the curve" is not the same as, "It is over." It is just that the growth RATE is no longer getting larger every day. Heck in the US today we seem to have about 99% of confirmed cases surviving while only 1% die. So which of your 100 closest friends and family will you doom while the other 99 just get sick enough to survive with possible organ damage for an unnecessarily shortened lifetime?

I've nearly*** lost all patience with those who (in May now with 50,000+ "official" U.S. deaths) don't take the virus seriously and do their part in stopping its spread.

Too many people seem to think that since it hasn't claimed a life of someone they know, it's not that big of a deal.

Too many people are ignorant (reading/viewing questionable sources). We have a family friend like this She came by our house today giving us unsolicited groceries (some fruits and veggies) without a mask. We KNOW she is ignorant (based on news stuff she talks about that is not true re: COVID-19 and stuff she doesn't know about that we've had to tell her) and goes out into crowded places all the time. She was being nice. She is kind-hearted and genuinely wanted to give us some groceries she found on sale (didn't want to take money for it). However, she came unannounced, no mask, and without us requesting it.

No one was happy about it, but we were forced to take her groceries or else seem paranoid and disrespectful. Maybe some will same I'm wrong and should be grateful. I don't know. I have conflicted feelings.

***I say "nearly," because I still try to show a tiny bit of goodwill and patience to those who I believe are ignorant. It's gotten close recently to where I've wanted to just yell at them. But, I've held back. If there is STILL a chance they just honestly don't know or don't have the right perspective and can change, I'll try to persuade them. Perhaps some honestly don't care or just are so obstinate in their views that they cannot be changed. At least I'll know I've done my part.

....who knows....maybe by June if we still get rising cases, I'll be in "yelling" mode at people I know who are being irresponsible/ignorant......I'm barely barely barely holding back just now.

@KathyG wrote:

Great questions.

I would be comfortable doing (with mask) mystery shops that just require an associate interaction. Since it would be impossible to eat without a mask, most dine-in shops would be determined on a case-by-case basis. And definitely NOT crowded places like Texas Roadhouse.

I've been on several cruises in the past few years and would avoid them just for that reason. The only type that's still on my bucket list is a European river cruise.

@shoptastic wrote:

Here is a question:

IF your state opens back up and business starts returning to normal, where would you be willing to shop (ms-ing or personal shopping) sans a vaccine?

Will you continue to voluntarily wear a mask, social distance, and avoid certain "higher risk" places? Would you eat at a place like Texas Roadhouse in the dining room? Would you take a cruise?

Anyone willing to do restaurants at all (ms or personal)?

That will be the toughest for me personally. It was a joy going out to eat with family. We're just going to avoid that going forward.

Only positive: getting/eating healthier and getting my BMI to a range my doctor wants (she mentioned some concerns last year before COVID-19, but it's especially a concern now given some correlations I've seen with the virus). Not eating so much fast food on my shops will help.

I went walking at the park with my sister today. The trails are about 10 feet wide in most places. In areas where they weren't, most people would stop when they saw us coming and wait for us to pass them on a wide area of the trail before coming into the narrow part of the trail where we were so they could observe proper social distancing. However, at one of the wider areas of the trail, 2 older women, 2 teenagers, and 2 small children came walking towards us. My sister scooted over to walk slightly ahead of me so they could do the same on their side of the trail. Only they didn't. They continued to walk side by side, with one of the older women walking in our air space within 2 feet of us, and they were breathing heavily as they were walking fast. Downright rude. I held my breath when I realized they weren't going to move over and waited until they were well past to breathe again. During our walk, I heard a few other women and couples with kids say to their kids, "Okay, now move on over to this side of the trail to give the ladies' their space" or something similar. I think that it's nearly impossible for people to not know better. They must simply just not care.

LOL, I've been doing the same thing when people don't move over.

@JASFLALMT wrote:

I held my breath when I realized they weren't going to move over and waited until they were well past to breathe again.

It's horribly disrespectful, and they aren't teaching their children to do better. It's maddening. That's why I refuse to go to the park on the weekends when there are many, many more people at the park than during the week. I would rather encounter a few cars on the backroads, even though some of the backroads are winding and slightly hilly.

I'm thinking of pulling out the hacking cough trick next time. Really. If I see someone isn't going to move over, when they get within five feet I can start that fake dry cough and see what happens!

I've thought of that but the possibility of having the COVID cops showing up claiming I should be self-quarantining is more than enough to prevent me...it's been mostly a nasty wishful thinking cause I know I wouldn't actually do it.

There are quite a number of suits on Amazon if you type in "hazmat suit."

Would these help? Do you just take them off and pop them in the trunk after leaving a store? You'd still have to touch it.

@JASFLALMT wrote:

I'm thinking of pulling out the hacking cough trick next time. Really. If I see someone isn't going to move over, when they get within five feet I can start that fake dry cough and see what happens!

I wouldn't, b/c you could be an asymptomatic carrier.