I can't take sides on the cell shop debate. But I remember that it was boring and hard on my back to stand around for ten, fifteen, twenty, thirty, forty, forty five, forty six, forty seve... loooooooooong minutes without receiving service. I would not do that in real life as a non-shopper.

The best thing that can come of being in a location for seemingly eternity is the opportunity to observe one or more associates for an extended period of time and discover how their treatment of you compares with their treatment of others. Sometimes, you overhear things that no one should hear. Occasionally, people are amusing. But mostly it's a drag.

Despite these potential drawbacks, I am doing another cell shop. It is slightly different than previous shops, and it should be efficient after I say the magic, mandatory phrase. If it isn't, well, I am prepared with the heating pad and an ice pack for alternating hot/ocld back treatments which will quell the back's protestations at such terrible treatment.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

I can't take sides on the cell shop debate. But I remember that it was boring and hard on my back to stand around for ten, fifteen, twenty, thirty, forty, forty five, forty six, forty seve... loooooooooong minutes without receiving service. I would not do that in real life as a non-shopper.

The best thing that can come of being in a location for seemingly eternity is the opportunity to observe one or more associates for an extended period of time and discover how their treatment of you compares with their treatment of others. Sometimes, you overhear things that no one should hear. Occasionally, people are amusing. But mostly it's a drag.

Despite these potential drawbacks, I am doing another cell shop. It is slightly different than previous shops, and it should be efficient after I say the magic, mandatory phrase. If it isn't, well, I am prepared with the heating pad and an ice pack for alternating hot/ocld back treatments which will quell the back's protestations at such terrible treatment.

The grand irony is that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of these ultra low paying cell-phone-shop shops every month. Why? Because there are new, minimum-wage staff at the stores every month. They have to work eight or more loooooooooooong hours (not minutes), standing on their feet, smiling all the while, day after day, for their minimum wage pay. The turnover is high, very high. We are not talking Ritz-Carlton service levels here, we are talking commodity cell phones and services, and, in this case, it sounds like a two-bit reseller in a has-been strip mall.

@spicy1 wrote:

Theft is against the law. Even Martha got caught.
You think lying to get $$ from these companies is not theft? Have you read your contract? Where are you people from?

Theft? Martha Steward? She went to jail for insider trading. Which she shouldn't have gone to jail for. I met the requirements of the assignments. You just don't like how I did it.

@johnb974 wrote:

Here is how this shop plays out. You print out the report and what is required. No mention of having to spend 15 minutes in the store. No mention of any time limits. You do the shop and fill out the report, when you started and when you left. The shop only took 10 minutes. Another question pops up, that wasn't part of the report, asking "How did you finish the shop in less then 15 minutes?" I explain, there were no other customers. I get a message back, shop denied. Because I didn't spend 15 minutes in the shop. They don't tell you that until AFTER you finish the shop.

So you have a reason to dispute non-payment with the MSC. That's what you should do, especially if you followed the guidelines. What you should NOT do, is sign up for another shop and lie to get paid.

@TroyHawkins wrote:

@johnb974 wrote:

Here is how this shop plays out. You print out the report and what is required. No mention of having to spend 15 minutes in the store. No mention of any time limits. You do the shop and fill out the report, when you started and when you left. The shop only took 10 minutes. Another question pops up, that wasn't part of the report, asking "How did you finish the shop in less then 15 minutes?" I explain, there were no other customers. I get a message back, shop denied. Because I didn't spend 15 minutes in the shop. They don't tell you that until AFTER you finish the shop.

So you have a reason to dispute non-payment with the MSC. That's what you should do, especially if you followed the guidelines. What you should NOT do, is sign up for another shop and lie to get paid.

How do you know s/he lied or will lie? Or got paid or will get paid?

It’s very disheartening to see topics like this.

What if I ran into a car dealership and immediately asked for a written quote, business card, and test drive, but said I had zero questions about the car and “could we please hurry with this because I’m already late to pick up my son.”

It would look incredibly strange, and the salesperson would not be able to demonstrate how they typically conduct a customer visit. Because real customers don’t behave that way.

The company is paying for shop reports because they want to know how a “typical” experience goes.

@gukka: They (and countless other workers) have to stand because someone has decided that sitting looks lazy, or something. That idea has some merit, but it is more inhumane than sensible. It may be an unnecessary barrier to the employment of great sales personalities who reside in wheelchairs or within injured bodies that need to sit sometimes. But what can I do. Clients want what they want.

@johnb947: If you were in charge of cell shops, how long would you want shoppers to wait for assistance before being eligible to leave a location? (I think twenty to thirty minutes would be the absolute maximum.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2018 12:22AM by Shop-et-al.

@Megs7521 wrote:

It’s very disheartening to see topics like this.

What if I ran into a car dealership and immediately asked for a written quote, business card, and test drive, but said I had zero questions about the car and “could we please hurry with this because I’m already late to pick up my son.”

It would look incredibly strange, and the salesperson would not be able to demonstrate how they typically conduct a customer visit. Because real customers don’t behave that way.

The company is paying for shop reports because they want to know how a “typical” experience goes.

Buying a car is one thing. Buying a cell phone (or, apparently, a cell phone service in this case) is an entirely different matter. There is nothing comparable between the two. Also, it's entirely likely that one would make such a car dealer visit if one was in the final stages of purchasing a car after significant prior negotiations. Or internet shopping. Or virtual reality experience. Or having already owned the vehicle and having no need for a test drive. And any number of other reasons.

Moreover, the OP never said s/he ran into the store and immediately asked for or did anything. S/he has said, many times, that s/he did what was asked on the shop.

Unless you've precisely read the paperwork (and MSC contract), you can't judge.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2018 12:11AM by gukka.

Moreover. That is ironic.

@gukka wrote:

Unless you've precisely read the paperwork (and MSC contract), you can't judge.

He stated he did not stay in the store the required 15 minutes and instead sat in his car in the parking lot.
I can absolutely judge.

@gukka wrote:

How do you know s/he lied or will lie? Or got paid or will get paid?

Really? Read. Please read. Then understand, I did not say johnb974 lied, I said don't lie. johnb974 never said he actually spent 5 minutes in the store then waited another 10 in his car, just that he would.

As for if johnb974 was paid... Did you READ the post you just quoted?????

I need a bar shop

@TroyHawkins
That’s my line!

Assuming that the shop was accepted and johnb947 was paid: You can judge, but wouldn't you rather tighten up guidelines and prevent this in future shops?

@Shop-et-al wrote:

@gukka: They (and countless other workers) have to stand because someone has decided that sitting looks lazy, or something. That idea has some merit, but it is more inhumane than sensible. It may be an unnecessary barrier to the employment of great sales personalities who reside in wheelchairs or within injured bodies that need to sit sometimes. But what can I do. Clients want what they want.

@johnb947: If you were in charge of cell shops, how long would you want shoppers to wait for assistance before being eligible to leave a location? (I think twenty minutes is the absolute maximum.)

That idea may have merit, but I doubt it what was being tested by the mystery shop, don't you?

Not to answer for the other correspondent, but my answer is ASAP. However, no one can know how many people will be at the shop at any given moment or when the shopper appears. S/he repeatedly said it was dead.

As the shop owner, I would want to minimize my staff and overhead costs and maximize my profits with full realization that I am selling a saturated and mature commodity service and that I cannot possibly always be fully staffed to capture all potential revenue during every moment the store is open.

Also, great sales personalities, regardless of their mobility, will not last long at two-bit cell phone resellers. They will quickly either move on their own or get recruited into positions where their great sales personalities will bring them $$$,$$$ -- not the $ they earn at cell phone reseller stores.

@bgriffin wrote:

@gukka wrote:

Unless you've precisely read the paperwork (and MSC contract), you can't judge.

He stated he did not stay in the store the required 15 minutes and instead sat in his car in the parking lot.
I can absolutely judge.

No, you can't What, exactly did the guidelines state?

@TroyHawkins wrote:

@gukka wrote:

How do you know s/he lied or will lie? Or got paid or will get paid?

Really? Read. Please read. Then understand, I did not say johnb974 lied, I said don't lie. johnb974 never said he actually spent 5 minutes in the store then waited another 10 in his car, just that he would.

As for if johnb974 was paid... Did you READ the post you just quoted?????

I need a bar shop

I did. And, I asked questions, not made statements. I will ask another. Why would you suggest not lying?

The correspondent said: "I'm doing what the guidelines say. I was there for 15 minutes." And: I did the shop, met their requirements. There was no requirement for me to be standing inside the store for the full 15 minutes."

@Shop-et-al wrote:

Assuming that the shop was accepted and johnb947 was paid: You can judge, but wouldn't you rather tighten up guidelines and prevent this in future shops?

That's a rhetorical question since none of us has any idea who the client is and what it's testing. That being so, I agree that unambiguous, concise, and reasonable, guidelines are better for all shops. But I still can't judge since I haven't see the MSC's contract and the guidelines.

So, you do not know who is being shopped, what is being evaluated, what the guidelines say but you are arguing his point for him that he sat in his car for 60 percent of his reported shop time and that is perfectly acceptable. Nice one.

@gukka, your posts are becoming more and more confusing. Do you really want to know why I said "don't lie"? Is that really the question you have, or are you attempting to get around to another topic? Perhaps you should start a new thread on the topic you want to discuss, since it has nothing to do with one.

I am not going to explain why I said don't lie, because no one involved with Mystery Shopping should have a question about it.

@spicy1 wrote:

So, you do not know who is being shopped, what is being evaluated, what the guidelines say but you are arguing his point for him that he sat in his car for 60 percent of his reported shop time and that is perfectly acceptable. Nice one.

I am not arguing. S/he stated many times that the requirements were met. Why are you suggesting they weren't? Did you read the guidelines?

Even on my own shops, I rarely know who is being shopped or what is being evaluated. I don't care. I do read my guidelines, clarify anything that is not clear to me, and do what the guidelines direct. There are some shops that target individuals or are marked as competitor shops, but those are rare and it's even rarer for me to accept them.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2018 12:54AM by gukka.

@gukka wrote:

@bgriffin wrote:

He stated he did not stay in the store the required 15 minutes and instead sat in his car in the parking lot.
I can absolutely judge.

No, you can't What, exactly did the guidelines state?

Since you have problems following discussions I'm going to quote his relevant posts:

@johnb974 wrote:

@Rousseau wrote:

There's one shop out there that requires one to spend 30 minutes on site. Problem is that store is only about 10 x 15 feet and nearly never has more than one customer in it. So one lingers, and lingers, looking at the same unwanted trinket over-and-over, pondering it, after the clerk has several times sold, resold, and attempted to close the sale...

I would just go out and sit in my car.

@johnb974 wrote:

I have gotten paid because there are no cameras in the stores. I've done a certain phone shop that requires you to spend 15 minutes in the store. These are small stores, with very few customers. The shop can be done in just over 5 minutes. No need to be standing in front of the counter for 10 minutes. Waste of my time and the employee's time.

In the first post Rousseau talked about a shop that requires one to spend 30 minutes. This insinuates that the shop guidelines state you have to be there 30 minutes. Otherwise, one would not be required to spend 30 minutes. JohnB then stated he would go sit in his car.

In the second post, JohnB states that he has in fact gotten paid "because there are no cameras in the stores." He goes on to say that the shop requires you to spend 15 minutes in the store. Again, this insinuates that the guidelines state that for several reasons:

1. Because he is aware that without cameras there is no way to prove he wasn't there 15 minutes.
2. He states the shop requires you to be in the store 15 minutes.

Later JohnB states that he only knows this because he had a shop rejected because he didn't spend 15 minutes. However, if you follow JohnB's posts over the last year or so you'll find that he has a horrible track record when it comes to knowing what's in guidelines. He'll say something isn't in the guidelines when people who have done many of the same shop have stated it absolutely is.

Either way, if you want to make that argument for the shop he did, it still doesn't matter because in his reply to Rousseau he admitted he would sit in his car during that shop as well. Since Rousseau is the only person who knows exactly what shop it is, and stated the requirement was there, JohnB can only assume that the requirement is in the guidelines and still admitted he would sit in his car.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2018 01:06AM by bgriffin.

@TroyHawkins wrote:

@gukka, your posts are becoming more and more confusing. Do you really want to know why I said "don't lie"? Is that really the question you have, or are you attempting to get around to another topic? Perhaps you should start a new thread on the topic you want to discuss, since it has nothing to do with one.

I am not going to explain why I said don't lie, because no one involved with Mystery Shopping should have a question about it.

I am sorry you are confused. I posed clear, unambiguous questions (and quotes from another); you respond with questions, then deflect, and then state you will not explain or answer my questions. That's enough (preaching) for me; no need to start another thread.

I think johnb947 is just the messenger. If that is possible for one shopper, it might be possible for many shoppers. It is possible due to something in the shop guidelines. Let's not shoot the shopper who found and reported a loophole.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2018 01:11AM by Shop-et-al.

@Megs7521 wrote:

It’s very disheartening to see topics like this.

What if I ran into a car dealership and immediately asked for a written quote, business card, and test drive, but said I had zero questions about the car and “could we please hurry with this because I’m already late to pick up my son.”

It would look incredibly strange, and the salesperson would not be able to demonstrate how they typically conduct a customer visit. Because real customers don’t behave that way.

The company is paying for shop reports because they want to know how a “typical” experience goes.

In this shop you are given specific questions to ask and what to watch for. I did all of that. When there is no one else in the store, this takes less than 10 minutes. You're not asking about phone features. You're asking about customer service.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

I think johnb947 is just the messenger. If that is possible for one shopper, it might be possible for many shoppers. It is possible due to something in the shop guidelines. Let's not shoot the shopper who found and reported a loophole.

If they want the shopper to stay at least 15 minutes, they should have said that in the report, BEFORE you take the shop. They did not. They don't ask you about how much time spent in the shop until you're filling out the report AFTER you did the shop. That is not right.

Yes there is a loop hole in the report. I could be sitting in my car waiting to take the required picture of the shop.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2018 01:33AM by johnb974.

@bgriffin wrote:

@gukka wrote:

@bgriffin wrote:

He stated he did not stay in the store the required 15 minutes and instead sat in his car in the parking lot.
I can absolutely judge.

No, you can't What, exactly did the guidelines state?

Since you have problems following discussions I'm going to quote his relevant posts:

@johnb974 wrote:

@Rousseau wrote:

There's one shop out there that requires one to spend 30 minutes on site. Problem is that store is only about 10 x 15 feet and nearly never has more than one customer in it. So one lingers, and lingers, looking at the same unwanted trinket over-and-over, pondering it, after the clerk has several times sold, resold, and attempted to close the sale...

I would just go out and sit in my car.

@johnb974 wrote:

I have gotten paid because there are no cameras in the stores. I've done a certain phone shop that requires you to spend 15 minutes in the store. These are small stores, with very few customers. The shop can be done in just over 5 minutes. No need to be standing in front of the counter for 10 minutes. Waste of my time and the employee's time.

In the first post Rousseau talked about a shop that requires one to spend 30 minutes. This insinuates that the shop guidelines state you have to be there 30 minutes. Otherwise, one would not be required to spend 30 minutes. JohnB then stated he would go sit in his car.

In the second post, JohnB states that he has in fact gotten paid "because there are no cameras in the stores." He goes on to say that the shop requires you to spend 15 minutes in the store. Again, this insinuates that the guidelines state that for several reasons:

1. Because he is aware that without cameras there is no way to prove he wasn't there 15 minutes.
2. He states the shop requires you to be in the store 15 minutes.

Later JohnB states that he only knows this because he had a shop rejected because he didn't spend 15 minutes. However, if you follow JohnB's posts over the last year or so you'll find that he has a horrible track record when it comes to knowing what's in guidelines. He'll say something isn't in the guidelines when people who have done many of the same shop have stated it absolutely is.

Either way, if you want to make that argument for the shop he did, it still doesn't matter because in his reply to Rousseau he admitted he would sit in his car during that shop as well. Since Rousseau is the only person who knows exactly what shop it is, and stated the requirement was there, JohnB can only assume that the requirement is in the guidelines and still admitted he would sit in his car.

I do apologize that I have not read all of the past year or so of johnb974's postings. I was not aware this was a requirement for commenting. Unclear guidelines...

Nevertheless: Where are the guidelines for this specific shop or shops? What you've posted are quotes from johnb974. How does Rousseau know "exactly what shop it is" or what the exact guidelines say? I've seen my own shop guidelines change from shop to shop and even change hours or sometimes even minutes before the shop is to be completed. Some have even changed after the assigned shop time window closed. Some were silent on what to do if the location was closed or if the store's name had changed (in that case, from one national dollar store to another in the same space).

The first of his quotes: "requires one to spend 30 minutes on site." This is not the quoteed shop guideline, is it? And "insinuates" means "hint" or "suggest," so that's not a clear, unambiguous guideline (if it's an actual part of any guideline at all). We don't know what "on site" means or if it's part of the guidelines.

Similar insinuation with the second quote. If, indeed, it was part of the guidelines. There should be nothing to insinuate, cameras or not.

@TroyHawkins wrote:

@johnb974 wrote:

Here is how this shop plays out. You print out the report and what is required. No mention of having to spend 15 minutes in the store. No mention of any time limits. You do the shop and fill out the report, when you started and when you left. The shop only took 10 minutes. Another question pops up, that wasn't part of the report, asking "How did you finish the shop in less then 15 minutes?" I explain, there were no other customers. I get a message back, shop denied. Because I didn't spend 15 minutes in the shop. They don't tell you that until AFTER you finish the shop.

So you have a reason to dispute non-payment with the MSC. That's what you should do, especially if you followed the guidelines. What you should NOT do, is sign up for another shop and lie to get paid.

I told them the reason for me spending only 10 minutes in the shop. They didn't care, they just denied the shop.

What this boils down to is a MSC or client that ask you about something that wasn't in the guidelines and than denies the shop. I've had this happen a just a few times. I just wish the MSC or clients would take a closer look at reports and ask the mystery shoppers what they think. We're the ones doing the work and meeting the people.

@johnb974 You said: Yes there is a loop hole in the report. I could be sitting in my car waiting to take the required picture of the shop.

However, no, you cannot because the guidelines say to take the picture of the storefront BEFORE you enter the store.

@johnb974 wrote:

What this boils down to is a MSC or client that ask you about something that wasn't in the guidelines and than denies the shop. I've had this happen a just a few times. I just wish the MSC or clients would take a closer look at reports and ask the mystery shoppers what they think. We're the ones doing the work and meeting the people.

Hmmmm... That’s never happened to me......