I have mixed feeling about watching and supporting WNBA games, which are becoming more prevalent on network TV. I’m not liking what I’m seeing with the bullying of Caitlin Clark in the form of cheap, intentional, physical fouls, mimicking, ganging up on her, etc.
When will the grudge against her for the hand gazing years ago be put to rest? If it’s still being treated as if it happened yesterday, who really has the problem? Shouldn’t her competitors show a bit more respect considering she was the spark that allowed all of them advance their careers?

I’ve watched a lot of NCAA and NBA men’s basketball over the years and as bad as some of their brawls were - esp. in the NBA, they were put to rest shortly after. Overall, for the kind of physical sport it is, I think they manage pretty well to be civil and respectful of one another. Why? because they were trained to not do anything to blow a game for their team. They become a liability if they can’t keep their temper under control.

If these women can’t leave their need to form cliques to target other players back in 7th grade, they will turn a lot of viewers away, who expect more mature behavior from grown women. I’ve seen hair pulling episodes that rival a Real Housewives fight. Their coaches should be telling them to CUT THAT HAIR if they don’t want it pulled. If someone gets slapped in the face with it, they’re going to retaliate. Tough if it’s not PC, it IS a hazard.
I think at this point the league needs to step in and put a stop to the pie throwing drama before it becomes too pathetic to witness. What it results in is not being taken seriously, becoming devalued, and low salaries. The same kind of dim view we see from the MSC who think we deserve less than what we should be paid.

From a People Magazine article:

“Despite both attendance and viewership increasing, WNBA athletes make significantly less than NBA athletes. The average WNBA base salary is around $102,000, while the NBA average is about $13 million, according to Spotrac's data analyzed by Sports Illustrated and Basketball Reference.

Nearly every player in the WNBA has a different contract that determines their tenure with a team and salary per year. WNBA salaries range from approximately $66,000 to $250,000 per year, according to Spotrac.

While salaries are determined by a series of factors and are unique for nearly every player, the only exception where players get paid the same is in their first year. Rookies who are drafted in the first through fourth picks all get paid the same as part of the WNBA's CBA. In 2025, the first four WNBA draft picks all agreed to a four-year contract with their team that starts with $78,831 for their first season, with the next three years all slightly increasing, per HerHoopStats.com.

The rest of the rookies are paid depending on their draft numbers, with the lowest-paid rookies earning $66,079 their first season in 2025. However, those salaries are only guaranteed for those who are both drafted and make the roster, which maxes out at 12 players, that same year.

In addition to their base salary, players can do deals, campaigns and sponsorships with brands. Some players also receive bonuses.

How are WNBA salaries determined?

Besides rookies in their four-year contract, WNBA salaries are determined by the league's Basketball-Related Income (BRI), which includes ticket sales, television rights and merchandise sales. In the NBA, approximately half of the BRI goes towards players' salaries, while in the WNBA, less than 10% goes to player salaries, according to MarketWatch.

Each year, every WNBA team has a total maximum salary cap and a required minimum that they're permitted to use on their team members, which was agreed upon in the 2020 CBA. For instance, in 2025, the salaries capped out at $1,507,100 and $1,261,440, per the CBA. The salary caps are slated to increase at a rate of three % each year, per The Athletic.

As for individual players, the CBA specifies both minimum and maximum salaries for players based on their years playing in the WNBA. Similar to the team salary cap, the minimum and maximum salary amounts increase each year. In 2025, the minimum player salary is $66,079 for players with two or fewer years of service and $78,831 for players with three or more years of service.

Meanwhile, the regular maximum for players in 2025 was $214,466. However, the highest salaries in the 2025 WNBA are around $250,000, as those players fall into the "supermax" category. Players qualify for the "supermax" salary if they stay with the team past their rookie contract or if they have at least five years of experience with a team and return as a veteran or free agent.”

Caitlin Clark was paid 78K for her first year and will make $338K over 4 years, which averages 84.5K a year. Time to wise up ladies. Put the drama to rest, stop being used, and demand what you deserve.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2025 07:52PM by Minime.

I used to be a more avid basketball fan

Admittedly, I don't follow the WNBA much at all. Caitlin Clark is the only reason I watch some highlights. If she were in a three-point contest, I think she could hold her own with NBA players.

On the other hand, Angel Reese, there are so many blooper reels of her missing layup after layup. Has zero touch and offensive post skills. Her shot looks ugly, too.

Among fans, NBA players are affectionately deemed as fake "wanna be fighters" and lovers. Every time any scuffle breaks out, they're waiting for other players to hold them back and break it up. Nothing ever lands. Since the brawl in Detroit a long time ago, nothing of significance has happened since. It's a soft game now, about pace, space, and skills.

One could even argue that LeBron James will never be paid his true value due to a soft salary cap. Should a super-max player on a bad team who has empty stats get the same super-max contract as other top-five players who ultimately drive the league? Unfortunately, it doesn't come down to skill at times. Sometimes, for a specific player, it comes down to timing and leverage. LeBron is smart, though. He times his contracts well, knows the CBA, and re-signs on short-term deals.

Not to stir the pot, but there have been some clips of notable WNBA players not faring so well against inferior male players. I think even against lower-level college and high-school players. Recently, there might have been a video of Sabrina Ionescu, where a high school male player was locking her up on defense. Even though he was using his upper body at times.

Anyways, I do agree that the WNBA's growth has been driven largely or even solely due to Caitlin Clark. She is the cash cow, much like Michael Jordan was in his prime. He got beaten up, as well. But over time, the league protected him.

I think NBA has 50/50 split with players when it comes to revenue. NFL might be the worst when one factors in the potential physical ailments.

In general, but not always, you get paid what the market thinks you're worth. Since more eyeballs watch the men, they get paid more. It's advertising dollars.

Of course, from latest advertising data, if the women were in tight fitting jeans, then just maybe...it takes great genes/jeans.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2025 08:37PM by maverick1.

I concur 100%! You know your stuff, that’s for sure. How long did you play?
Noticed that with Reese too. She gets frustrated because she knows she doesn’t have natural talent, which leads to the jealousy and anger. She took 4 games off at the beginning of the season for a ‘mental health break’ or whatever. I’m not buying it. I think she was forced to cool her heels. She may appeal to the WWF crowd who watch for the fights, but I think most people find her behavior offensive. She eggs her teammates on to partake in it as well. Not a leader or roll model.

I saw an interview with Clark who mentioned she was left hand dominant as a kid. I think that’s why her shots are so accurate. I’m ambidextrous as well, which helped a lot with basketball and tennis. I was better at outside shooting than close shots. That was during a time when there were no 3 point shots. Hard to believe there was a time, and shows my age! Not a fan of the NBA since it became all about making the 3s. Boring, as most 3 point contests.

When I tried watching the WNBA it would last 5 minutes because it was maddening for me to see how little the women player’s skills have advanced over the years. Things have changed a bit over the past couple of years, but the players are much bigger and stronger now, so it just different.

Clark is a natural and should have a long career, unless she gets taken out by someone. It’s too bad they had the need to make her an outcast. I notice slights from players on her own teams. You rarely see that with the men. MJ was the king on his team. I personally never liked him. Ball hog.

I still like to shoot on a standard basketball hoop for fun. As long as one has proper form, repetition, and consistency, one can turn oneself into a good shooter. For me, it's where your eyes are on the target. I see many people's shots fall short or flat. It's calm and relaxing

I agree. Caitlin Clark looks to be a flat-out scorer, though. Can get her shot off in real game situations and knows how to react to defenses geared to stop her. Not just a standstill jumpshooter. From what I've observed, she's a natural hooper and loves the game

I heard from some that the WNBA can be more fundamentally and aesthetically watchable to basketball purists. For past players, I liked Candace Parker's game

If I'm not mistaken, I think a lot of the older and proven players went to play internationally, where teams and leagues paid more. Or maybe in addition to the states, I'm not sure.

I'll admit, I'm not very versed when it comes to NBA and WNBA now. Can't comment on games and intangibles much

Somehow, though, the Sophie Cunningham "enforcer" moment made its way to me. I loved it

Isn’t ’tight jeans’ a 70’s thing? Before my time I guess…

Totally sad that some of the greats need to go to Europe to make a decent living. I’m sickened by the greed and how much $ is being made off of them in the US. It’s pretty scandalous.

Not to go OT, but does anyone watch American Ninja Warrior? I’ve never seen such athletic talent - women included! I don’t even mind that they’re given no concessions competing with the men. At least they’re given a chance.

What I love about the show is the comradery they all have. There’s no depressing defeats b/c they all want to see each other reach their full potential and are psyched to see someone kill the course. So many endearing back stories and interesting profiles, which I’m glad they haven’t phased out. I haven’t witnessed one sh*tty person acting like an Ahole. I have so many favorites like:
The Papal Ninja Sean Bryan, RJ Roman and Flip Rodrigues who train young ninja protégés, Daniel Gil, and Isabella and Sam Folsom. She smoked the last obstacle, the ‘elevator climb’ a few weeks ago which almost all but a handful of guys failed to even reach. I’m surprised it didn’t get more media attention. She met her husband on the show - who is also really amazing and they recently got married. Both so young but you can tell already they’re paired for life. Also love how the show keeps evolving and changing. Highly recommended for a Monday night veg out.

PS Pani - I totally agree about the focus on the rim. Not seeing it much in the WNBA. Either you have it or you don’t.

PSS: No offense to people with long hair. There’s should be no judgement placed on the length of one’s hair. Unless, of course you are….


Morgan Fairchild.

I do like the style and fit of WNBA shorts and jerseys

I was later taught to shoot above the basket, as if I wanted to drop the ball straight down into the center of the basket. It's so beautiful to watch pure shooters, where the net doesn't even move.

I haven't watched American Ninja Warrior, but I know someone who participated a long time ago. If I'm familiar with the concept and premise of the show, I believe those types of obstacle courses are more functionally beneficial and better for overall conditioning.

What you mentioned about everyone cheering for each other reminds me of a vibe that F45 gyms have. Sometimes in the early mornings, I have seen a cult-like obsession where they all push and feed off each other.

Women make for great athletes! My better half could overtake me in anything that involves lower body strength and flexibility

@Minime They are getting paid what they deserve. Don't worry about Clark, she is getting hers. She makes a lot of money in endorsement deals.

The WNBA TV deal is lousy and a new one goes into effect soon. You write a lot, but you aren't saying the women should be paid as much as the men - are you? Before this year the WNBA regular season consisted of half as many games 40 vs the NBA's 82. This year they went just over half and play fewer games in the playoffs and only do a best of 3, 5, and 5 series. The NBA playoff format is best of 7, 7, 7, and 7 series.

There is more interest in the NBA and they generate more revenue. Some sources claim 50 times the revenue compared to the women.

While interest in the WNBA product is increasing at a faster rate than the NBA, they still have a long way to go. If you are coming from a low base, it is easier to show a dramatic increase. Consider if a MSC is offering $2.50 to do a mystery shop and then bump it to $7.50, they bumped it 200% which is dramatic, but still lousy.

Momo: What I’m saying is the revenue sharing should be the same as it is for the men. Did you miss this tidbit?

Besides rookies in their four-year contract, WNBA salaries are determined by the league's Basketball-Related Income (BRI), which includes ticket sales, television rights and merchandise sales. In the NBA, approximately half of the BRI goes towards players' salaries, while in the WNBA, less than 10% goes to player salaries, according to MarketWatch.

I don’t know where you got the info about the TV contract and how it would effect their salaries, but it doesn’t sound like the women will benefit from it since the salary cap per team is 1.5 million a year and has a maximum increase of 3% a year. So explain how they’re getting what they deserve. The fact that they’re all over network tv all week long should tell you something. Saying that endorsement deals makes up for it sounds chauvinistic. It bears no relevance, neither does the amount of games they play. Why should they care what the standards are for the NBA? They’re not competing with them. Their league has the right to set their own rules - just like the NBA. For the astronomical $ the NBA players get paid, they SHOULD be required to play that 80 games. People are turning away from them because of the lazy pace the players have adopted to be less taxing on their bodies. The women aren’t pulling that @#$%&. I have no doubt that the league will require them to play more games if the fat cats can continue to make more and more $ off of them.

These 4 year contracts sound worse than what the record companies in the 70s and 80s got away with. They set it up so they can’t strike. It will all come out eventually and will result in a brown eye for the league and all of the other greedy bastards involved.

It bears relevance because the WNBA is a money loser. It bears relevance because the NBA subsidizes the WNBA. You advocate for a plan or should I say tidbit that would make it lose more money. How many times has the WNBA been profitable in the last 30?

TV contracts are vital. That is a revenue source that is used to pay for expenses like player salaries. The value of the WNBA tv contract this year is $60 million vs. the NBA's $2.7 billion.

Is it a fact "that they’re all over network tv all week long"? I haven't seen this fact. Is it true that fans are turning away from the NBA and if so is the WNBA converting them into fans - unlikely. Be honest, without looking it up, you couldn't name 10 other WNBA players - "roll model" or not (lol). Let's say you could, most could not.

Why are you talking about ‘30 years’ ago Momo? What ‘subsidies’ are you referring to? You obviously have no knowledge of their profit margins, so why bring it up?

The NBA owns a chunk of the WNBA. That’s a part of the problem. The WNBA contracts across the 4 networks will quadruple in value by the end of the year, to $240 million. That profit increase won’t be shared with the players. Ownership transfers are being kept under wraps. The fleecing has already been established with very little room for negotiation. The 20% share is not going to budge, if it even gets there. As it stands now it’s under 10%.

From Sportico last week:

“The WNBA has experienced explosive growth across TV ratings, attendance, sponsorships, revenue and franchise values. It has been a boon for the league’s stakeholders, and now players want their share after players opted out of the current CBA at the end of 2024.

One negotiating point: soaring expansion fees.

“It’s interesting that there’s a $250 million expansion fee, and there’s no openness to have that be reflected in revenue share that goes to the players, especially as we’re experiencing growth,” Nneka Ogwumike, WNBPA president, said in an interview with the Associated Press this week. “It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, but we’re hoping we can get some clarity on that in Indiana.”

Expansion fees in the biggest North American sports leagues are typically split among existing owners. The calculus is trickier in the WNBA, as their governors own only 42% of the league; the NBA holds another 42% of the league and the remaining 16% belongs to a 2022 investment consortium. Expansion dilutes solely the 42% held by WNBA teams and not the share held by the NBA or investors, as Sportico reported in March.

More than 40 players attended Thursday’s meeting between the PA and league in Indianapolis, with everyone on-site for WNBA All-Star weekend. Both the league and union have talked about a transformational CBA, but the WNBPA has clearly been underwhelmed by the WNBA’s counters.

“The WNBA’s response to our proposals fails to address the priorities we’ve voiced from the day we opted out: a transformational CBA that delivers our rightful share of the business we built, improves working conditions, and ensures the success we create lifts both today’s players and the generations that follow,” the WNBPA said in a statement after the talks.”

‘Delivers our rightful share of the business we built?’ Delusional, chauvinistic morons.
Future generations will abandon them. The contract signings need to stop ASAP before it’s too late for the players who actually built it. Europe is always an option.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2025 07:41PM by Minime.

I am not talking about 30 years ago. I was asking how many years in the last 30 has the WNBA been profitable? Was it profitable last year? How would you know what I know - you don't. Why don't you acknowledge my tidbits - WNBA is a money loser and is subsidized by the NBA.

If they go to Europe, so be it. They have leagues over there and the average salary range is 60,000-250,000. Top WNBA stars can earn 350,000-500,000 over there. Of course, that means not all of the WNBA players here can go there and play and you wind up limiting the overall female players employed in pro basketball.

Ms. Clark and Ms. Reese, more so the former, has been a boon to the league. The issue is the popularity has to be sustained. Look at the 36% drop YoY in the ratings for the WNBA All Star game.

I don't think the NBA owning a part of the WNBA is a hindrance. Not sure how you get that the NBA owning a part of the WNBA is part of the problem. If the NBA wasn't there you would most likely see a loss of shared revenue and media deals; loss of the NBA's financial support to cover costs; and loss of infrastructure. They might've been forced to fold a long time ago instead of being carried.

Interesting that you criticize the TV deal when I mention that it was lousy and then you bring it up saying it will see a 4 fold increase.

You provide zero proof of what you’re claiming, which is why I don’t believe your tidbits. There actually are none. You obviously don’t read anything about this as evidenced by your weak arguments and generalizations that are not even worth being offended by.

All the players have to do is go to Europe for one year for it all to crumble. If Clark leaves it would get a rash of media attention, she would make a ton more $, and the bigwigs hate her for it. They can’t handle a woman with more power than them so it’s best to part ways. They’ll be stupid enough to continue keeping the rest of the players down and run it into the ground. Poverty wages, stealing the credit, hiding financials,… It will all blow up in their faces. UCONN put women’s BB on the map, not a bunch of nerdy corporate dushebags.

If CC walks the top players will probably follow suit, not only for much higher pay, but on principle. That’s if they weren’t stupid enough to agree to those obscene contracts. This in turn would hurt the NBA. (You know, because of how much they’ve invested in the WNBA, subsidizing their 1.5 mil. salary caps, lol!) There goes the infrastructure! LMAO!

They’re selling out venues and viewership hardly dropped in CC’s absence due to injury. Unfortunately for the men, she’s more popular than the NBA’s highest paid player, Steph ‘night, night’ Curry. He was a total embarrassment in Europe. He can stay there and stay asleep for all anyone cares. Who gives a sh*t about the past.

Regarding the WNBA players playing internationally, I remember listening to it somewhere, but I forgot where. This is deep into the weeds, but the Knuckleheads podcast through the Players' Tribute had some women's basketball players as guests, even over five years ago.

I was interested in one episode about Candace Parker. If interested, some links are below at specific times.

I do remember reading something about the Caitlin Clark effect on the WNBA with chartered flights.

WNBA CBA
[youtu.be]

Making more internationally
[youtu.be]

Quick Q: Where might I find information about the NBA point of view? Specifically, what do tptb in the NBA think has happened, is happening, and should happen regarding the WNBA?

I'm not sure. I don't know much about the relationship and dynamics between the NBA and WNBA

However, I was interested in the topics of maternity leave and stipends on the road.

Yup. Things are changing for the WNBA. Found something about private rooms for players traveling for road games, too. I wonder if the NBA is willing to continue for more than money reasons. Surely the NBA can use its longer experience and estimate how long it will take to identify WNBA negotiating points and resolve them. This would just be decent and practical. ?

@Shop-et-al wrote:

Quick Q: Where might I find information about the NBA point of view? Specifically, what do tptb in the NBA think has happened, is happening, and should happen regarding the WNBA?

Ask Momo, who seems to know a lot about how the NBA is subsidizing them..

I doubt you’ll find any info on the NBA’s stance, since they hold 42% ownership of the WNBA. They’ll do what’s in their best interest. If they were interested in fairness maybe there would be more transparency and info on their stance.

The Players Association is leading the players down the garden path. Who really runs that show is the question.

@paniconmon wrote:

Regarding the WNBA players playing internationally, I remember listening to it somewhere, but I forgot where. This is deep into the weeds, but the Knuckleheads podcast through the Players' Tribute had some women's basketball players as guests, even over five years ago.

I was interested in one episode about Candace Parker. If interested, some links are below at specific times.

I do remember reading something about the Caitlin Clark effect on the WNBA with chartered flights.

WNBA CBA
[youtu.be]

Making more internationally
[youtu.be]

@paniconmon wrote:

Regarding the WNBA players playing internationally, I remember listening to it somewhere, but I forgot where. This is deep into the weeds, but the Knuckleheads podcast through the Players' Tribute had some women's basketball players as guests, even over five years ago.

I was interested in one episode about Candace Parker. If interested, some links are below at specific times.

I do remember reading something about the Caitlin Clark effect on the WNBA with chartered flights.

WNBA CBA
[youtu.be]

Making more internationally
[youtu.be]

Thanks! Will check it out when I have more time.

Think the -erm- end game must be pay equality or equivalency. For now, I will consider that tptb in the WNBA are still in a steep learning curve. Twenty eight and counting years is a long time to reach profitability. Will WNBA ever become self-sustaining?

@Shop-et-al wrote:

Think the -erm- end game must be pay equality or equivalency. For now, I will consider that tptb in the WNBA are still in a steep learning curve. Twenty eight and counting years is a long time to reach profitability. Will WNBA ever become self-sustaining?

It took the NBA 50 years, which is suspect. It still didn’t stop them from paying the men very well back in the day.

The stakeholders aren’t going to let them turn a profit. They’ll push for expansion instead, which appears to be in the works. They’re turning a profit now, so need to force the current players pay for the debts of the past - if that’s even being done. Wasn’t it written off?

Time to get the feds involved, although with this administration there would probably be a tithe involved.

Wannabe players could learn from our shopperbob and decline to join a team if they are not satisfied with newbie contract pay. If owners cannot get the players they most want, they might concede sooner rather than later. ?

I heard that when the league first started, players had other regular jobs during the offseason. Players were laughing at some of the footage back then and advocating for certain players from that era to be removed from a list of the Top 50 Players, to make room for more modern NBA players. For example, there would be excessive dribbling from one hand, set shots, and airballs. But the gist of the story is that it was a different era.

A lot of basketball writers and analysts attribute the success of the modern NBA to the rivalry between Magic Johnson (LA Lakers) and Larry Bird (Boston Celtics) in the 80s.

I believe rookie contracts on a sliding scale are a cost of doing business. In the NFL, there was open negotiation. But there were so many busts, especially at the quarterback position. It hamstrung franchises for years, which were top picks.

In the NBA, there were some busts with high school players. There have been some cases where second-round picks have shorter deals. The deck can be stacked against them, but if they perform and exceed expectations, they come to the bargaining table quicker and in a position to command their market value.

I used to watch and follow MLB and the NFL, but care little about it now. I’m disgusted with the multi-million dollar contracts that raise ticket prices to the point where the cost is prohibitive for their most loyal fans. Only wealthy people can afford to take their family to a game. It didn’t used to be that way. Now I only watch college basketball and a little NBA, but that has become a 3 point shoot around that bores me.

There’s still a huge disparity between what the men and women college players make when they’re drafted. The men show up to selection Sunday dripping in bling. No real fanfare for the women. It all starts with the colleges and universities and how they support their men’s and women’s sports programs, UConn was the first to truly invest in their women’s BB program and it paid off for them. Tennessee did as well. They had the first real rivalry. They both generated a lot of revenue for their schools and many of their players became stars. It’s now grown to the point where the colleges need to rethink leveling their men’s and women’s sports budgets.

What I don’t like seeing with the WNBA is how the women are being treated fresh out of college. Many of them are first generation college students and although their parents may have helped them achieve their full playing potential, they may not have enough business saavy to help them with their pro careers. The players take what they can get and it’s next to nothing.

For the men the rationalization for the astronomically high salaries is that their lifetime earning potential can be shortened due to injury or not finishing college. It’s no different for the women, or even shorter if you add maternity leave. They’re currently in a position where they have to advocate for themselves for higher salaries and it doesn’t look like anyone is listening. What has changed now is there’s a popular player who holds the spotlight and a megaphone. It’s just a matter of how she will use it.

That’s why I say they better stop the Real Housewives behavior in the pros if they want to be taken seriously. At first the Angel Reese feud drew interest but now people don’t want to see her continue acting like a thug. She really needs to let it go for the sake of all of them.

If the union isn’t advocating for them they shouldn’t join. If the NBA is running a monopoly they should expose it. If the league isn’t paying them enough they should walk and seek out the highest pay they can get. Only a few of them have lucrative endorsement deals at this point anyway.

The writing is on the wall as far as their salaries go over the next few years. They need to draw attention to what’s going on now before their playing years are over. Their fans also need to support them in it as well. Just as there’s a cap on their salaries, there should be a cap on ticket prices. If they don’t keep that under control it will lead to empty stands and a loss in fan base.

Well said, it will be interesting to see where the WNBA and women basketball players are in 10 years.

Sorry to keep veering back to NBA. When Inside the NBA on TNT announced it was no longer going to be on TNT after 25 years, it was such a bummer. When I did watch an occasional game, it was mainly for the longer half-time and post-game shows, and not even so much the games. I feel like ESPN is going to butcher it with more focus on basketball and constant commercials

I can’t stand ESPN in general. They cut off commentary after the games and either go right into the next one or to one of their crap programs. Tons of commercials and sound bites with what they do cover. Sports Center adds in so much crap from less popular sports that nobody cares about with constant updates on what’s to come, which takes a half an hour to get to. Their hosts always come across as elitist snobs, with a lot of jabs they’re given the liberty to add. The attempts at making their own humorous comments always fall flat.